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XK N00b
10-15-2011, 05:37 PM
I killed mine today. Dealer to call with damage assessment monday

LWM
10-15-2011, 06:44 PM
I killed mine today. Dealer to call with damage assessment monday

That does not sound good! You went wheeling correct?

Matt
10-15-2011, 06:46 PM
.....need details.... asap

XK N00b
10-15-2011, 07:01 PM
Yes, we went wheeling today, 4 wranglers, an XJ, and myself. The day was going great, I silenced the critics early conquering the first gnarly hill while 2 YJs bailed out and a TJ tried and failed. Also, got in and out of a ravine that something the size of an XK had no business in. Then, I followed the XJ (lifted 6" on 33s) through(mostly) a river crossing..... I went in about 30', felt the current push me just a bit so I goosed it, while in 4 LO. The XK sprang to life lurched forward and suddenly died. I made the mistake of immediately trying to start it and got nothing. Stuck for about 5 minutes in moving water 3" higher than the chrome trim on the doors while said XJ found his recovery strap and extracted me. Water inside the XK reached the bottom of the brake pedal. Two hours of airing out the soaked air filter and intake and pulling plugs (that were dry). Only to try to start it again and get nothing but a click from the starter before wafts of smoke started rolling up the left side of block. Trailside diagnosis: Fried the starter while in the water (it was submerged). Got towed 7 miles back to pavement, where I was towed another 26 miles by wrecker to the nearest dealer two hours later. Upon arrival at dealer, oil was pouring out of my 4xGuard belly guard. There was no oil leaking alongside the river, or on the road prior to towing, or even when winched onto the flatbed. This changes trailside diagnosis drastically :( Pics to follow as soon as they are done uploading to smugmug.

AJeepZJ
10-15-2011, 07:28 PM
Really sorry to hear that man. Hopefully it's just disconnected pipe or something easily resolved. Oil typically just doesn't fall out, even during flooding. I can't think of any that would cause a car to dump oil other than over heating, or overfilling.

Matt
10-15-2011, 07:39 PM
Ouch...

Take it from someones who's "been there, done that"... i know what you're going through. It sucks. BUT, it makes for good stories later.

hopefully it's not something major..... but if it is, i guarantee it makes for a great story in a few years.

It's been quite some time since i've done this:

https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

XK N00b
10-15-2011, 08:45 PM
Out of the ravine, for scale, a wrangler:
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

Me following:
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png
Minor scratches:
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png
Pushing too much water:
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

XK N00b
10-15-2011, 08:55 PM
Dead in the water
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png
The name on the door says it all because, it sure was.
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

CmmdrDan
10-15-2011, 11:05 PM
You shouldn't have followed..
Good luck man..

superacerc
10-16-2011, 06:30 AM
Where you were stopped in the creek in the stuck picture it doesn't look all that deep.

Matt
10-16-2011, 07:54 AM
Where you were stopped in the creek in the stuck picture it doesn't look all that deep.

Rookie mistake... the water doesn't need to be that deep. When you go too fast it creates a higher swell in front of you and that's when you hydrolock engines (i've done it :()

XK N00b
10-16-2011, 11:14 AM
Where you were stopped in the creek in the stuck picture it doesn't look all that deep.

And it really wasn't. I would've been fine if I had kept my foot off the gas :(

Sal-XK
10-16-2011, 09:39 PM
unfortunately the stock air intake location and design is a funnel for water to be sucked up by our jeeps and for this reason I avoid water like its the devil. I hope it's something easy and cheap for you man but sometimes you just have to say no I'll skip this one.

XK N00b
10-17-2011, 01:16 PM
Dealership called today, motor is hydrolocked. Getting insurance company involved to get a claim going. I was told that once it's authorized, it'll take 2-3 days to put it back together again.

Gotterdid
10-17-2011, 03:09 PM
Dang I feel for ya. I did the same thing to mine after only having it a month. On a whim, I called my insurance agent and explained exactly how it happened.... my comprehensive coverage paid the whole thing! grant total - 6300 and change. Got the Airflow snorkel sitting in the garage. It's going on before ANY future water crossing!

Sal-XK
10-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Good luck with the claim and go by a snorkel :)

Matt
10-17-2011, 03:22 PM
So insurance companies may actually cover us for stuff like this?? hmmm...

Sal-XK
10-17-2011, 03:31 PM
So insurance companies may actually cover us for stuff like this?? hmmm...

I checked into this before and you are covered for reasonably using your vehicle for what it is designed and intended for kinda why we pay more for having 4x4... I would not make a habit of it because your rates will jump and eventually you'll get dropped.

Matt
10-17-2011, 03:32 PM
I wouldnt ever want to make a habit out of hydrolocking a motor....wait.... i did... lol i hydrolocked my explorer 3 times before i built the snorkel!! (but i got it running again, all 3 times... it blew up a few months later)

Sal-XK
10-17-2011, 03:44 PM
I meant make a habit of making insurance claims SILLY :) in NC $1800 or less they just pay for no big deal but one dollar over then they assign you points and your rates will go up with state farm anyway.

superacerc
10-17-2011, 03:52 PM
And it really wasn't. I would've been fine if I had kept my foot off the gas :(

That was what i thought. It looked nice and deep with you running quickly through it and then when you stopped it wasn't much at all. Live and learn i suppose. Good luck on the claim.

pjmjr508
10-17-2011, 04:00 PM
I have done the same thing & my insurance replaced mine as well. I don't want a snorkel but I do like playing in the water, so I have to fab up something to do both. Sorry to hear & hope your insurance does cover it & get your rig back soon, mine took a month to get it back.

BonesWK
10-18-2011, 06:19 AM
dude I hate that your rig got hydrolocked. I can only imagine how deep the water was to get water up to your pedals.

I had some splash over into my rig, and that s*** seemed deep! Good luck with the rebuild or new engine

Great story and pic though!

XK N00b
10-18-2011, 03:57 PM
For those that went through this and got the repair/rebuild/replacement motor, how many could tell a difference in power from the new motor versus yours pre damage?

Matt
10-18-2011, 04:00 PM
Depends on how many miles you have and how well you took care of it. If it was a well taken care of engine, there wont really be a drastic difference.

NeilSmith
10-18-2011, 04:59 PM
Depending on the situation, the water doesn't have to be that deep. Here is a buddy locking his up. He has a K&N intake installed and he cut out the fender liner below it to allow more air to get to the filter. It also allowed water to be kicked up right to the filter. Locked up tight. Luckily we were able to pull all the plugs and turn it over and shot a bunch of water out of the cylinders. He was lucky it just shut off and it wouldnt turn over at all. If it turned over with all that water in it , it probabably would have bent some rods at the very least. You can see the water never even got over the foglights, far below the factory air inlet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb2XZF7FFx0&feature=youtu.be

pjmjr508
10-19-2011, 04:47 AM
The K&N CAI is what did mine in as well, it wasn't from the fenders liners being cut up, but it was water coming thru the front. I had 20k on the clock when I blew mine, and my replacement was a reman. I can't really tell any difference.

Matt
10-19-2011, 05:19 AM
the stock intake box is set up pretty well to prevent hydrolocking.... as long as you leave that flap on the front which would deflect that wave of water away from the inlet. I'm not a huge fan of big conical filters for these types of rigs.... they really don't help much in terms of performance (unless the engine is running above 5000 rpms constantly. ... which we don't do with our kind of offroading) and they're more likely to ingest water.

XK N00b
10-25-2011, 08:50 PM
So, the word so far is... motor sucked up water, and blew the rear main. The block is junk and will have to be replaced. Sounds like insurance is going to cover it :D Better news is (so far) the insurance company hasn't been able to find a used Hemi with less milage than mine, so they'll be ordering a new long block from Chrysler to replace it with. Seats and carpet and padding have been removed to dry out. I'll be avoiding any future water crossings (at least until the snorkel is in place)

Sal-XK
10-26-2011, 02:16 AM
So, the word so far is... motor sucked up water, and blew the rear main. The block is junk and will have to be replaced. Sounds like insurance is going to cover it :D Better news is (so far) the insurance company hasn't been able to find a used Hemi with less milage than mine, so they'll be ordering a new long block from Chrysler to replace it with. Seats and carpet and padding have been removed to dry out. I'll be avoiding any future water crossings (at least until the snorkel is in place)

Lucky! That's good new man.

Matt
10-26-2011, 03:09 AM
Glad to hear its all working out!!

Just curious..... Did the service manager look at you funny when you brought it in? Lol I bet they don't get too many commanders like that!

XK N00b
10-26-2011, 05:12 AM
Latest info: Motor was full of water, blew the rear main. Block is junk and will have to be replaced. Looks like insurance is going to cover it :D Better news it they've been unable to locate a used motor with fewer miles than mine so they'll be ordering a long block from Chrysler. Seats and carpet and padding have been removed to dry out. I'll be avoiding any future water crossings (at least until the snorkel is in place)

Didn't see the first one posted.. sorry

superacerc
10-26-2011, 07:37 AM
So what your saying is.... you've got a snorkel on order? J/k Well hopefully it won't take them too long to finish your fix and get you back in your XK. Good Luck.

XK N00b
10-26-2011, 03:17 PM
Just curious..... Did the service manager look at you funny when you brought it in? Lol I bet they don't get too many commanders like that!

He said they really don't see any with even mud tires on them, let alone mud.... and full skids, and sliders :)

LWM
10-26-2011, 03:52 PM
He said they really don't see any with even mud tires on them, let alone mud.... and full skids, and sliders :)

Where did you take it? I used to take mine to Avondale Jeep and they would all come out to look at it every time I was there.

XK N00b
10-27-2011, 05:19 AM
It's over at Airpark Chrysler Jeep in north Scottsdale. It drowned in the Verde River by Bartlett Lake. Airpark was the closest dealer. I usually take it to Avondale for it's service but, it would've been $300 extra in towing to get there.

LWM
10-27-2011, 07:34 AM
It's over at Airpark Chrysler Jeep in north Scottsdale. It drowned in the Verde River by Bartlett Lake. Airpark was the closest dealer. I usually take it to Avondale for it's service but, it would've been $300 extra in towing to get there.

From everything I have heard Airpark is one of the best so you should be in good hands.

Adondo
10-28-2011, 11:42 AM
Wow! That sucks! (No pun intended)

The photo where your grill is under is what did it. Moving too fast creates a wave front even in 18" deep water, and of course, the intake is right behind the grill on the passenger side. Slurp!

After 30+ years of 4x4'ing, I know that you get pretty much ONE (single, uno, ein) chance when going too deep. The air gets blocked off and the engine stalls out pretty fast, and if it's not doing red-line, the water won't get that far. That's the time to STOP EVERYTHING and get rid of the water - the first time it stalls. And NEVER try to restart until it's dealt with. In the Commander's stock air cleaner housing, there's a small drain hole in the bottom of the bucket. Just getting pulled out of the water and waiting for 60 or 90 seconds should clear the bucket, and in the meantime, you pull the lid and element to check it and/or replace the wet element. If you even so much as see ANY water up in the intake piping, then it's time for a spark plug pull.

I'm sure you know now that your too-soon restart moved a slug of water up the intake piping and into the engine. It doesn't take much water either, people think it takes gallons, it doesn't. Water does not compress, not even a little bit, and the clearances are pretty small in the combustion chamber space when the piston's at TDC. Half a coffee cup worth will break a rod because the piston just ends up with no place to go. Even if a piston's stroke gets stopped only a few thousandths of an inch short, it's still a disaster. A big slug of water (maybe in several cylinders) will try to push the crankshaft down and away from the block mountings, (assuming the rods don't give out first) and that sounds like what happened here.

As for insurance, isn't having insurance for recovering from doing something stupid? :D You know, you leave boiling oil on the stove and go to the store, and the burning kitchen takes the rest of the house with it? Texting while driving and run a light? Hydrolocking your engine? That's what those endless premiums payments are for. Of course, you don't want to make a habit of it. :p

XK N00b
10-31-2011, 03:38 PM
Adondo, you're exactly right. Every bit of what you said happened. Sucked water, tried to restart too soon, water in the throttle body, I "knew" it doesn't take much to kill an engine with water, it's been confirmed for sure through this experience.


Worse news, insurance called me today and decided thay they are going to total the truck rather than risk any future problems from this incident. So RIP my awesome silver XK. :( Time to get some solid numbers from the insurance and start shopping for another ride. Dammit. I love that Jeep.

Sal-XK
10-31-2011, 04:06 PM
That's to bad man sorry to hear that. What are you looking at getting?

criket
10-31-2011, 04:07 PM
Oh dang!!! I was hoping you'd get a new motor and get back to offroading again.

XK N00b
10-31-2011, 04:24 PM
That's to bad man sorry to hear that. What are you looking at getting?

Yeah, I'm not thrilled either. The dealer received the new motor and carpet this morning and was already in the process of pulling the old when insurance changed their minds. I'm already looking for another XK. I've got to get figures from them and see what I'll have to work with.


Oh dang!!! I was hoping you'd get a new motor and get back to offroading again.

Me too. Looks like now I'll get a new car and get back in the dirt. I hate car shopping. Ugh

pjmjr508
10-31-2011, 05:22 PM
they paid 10 k in jan of this year when I hydro mine & didn't total it. Why doing that to yours?

Matt
10-31-2011, 06:04 PM
That sucks... hopefully you can find a slightly used 2010 though.

Make sure you get those 4xGuard products off of there before the wrecker comes! edit: and anything else worthwhile like the mopar skids..

XK N00b
10-31-2011, 07:17 PM
they paid 10 k in jan of this year when I hydro mine & didn't total it. Why doing that to yours?

I honestly can't figure this out. $9558 in total damage, carpet, motor, labor, everything. Minus $1741.40 in betterment and deductible. The first call today was to tell me the check was on the way. The dealer HAS the parts on hand now, they were shipped in over the weekend. They called me back 3 hours later and said they were going to total it out rather then risk this becoming an ongoing problem with corrosion in the wiring, and because they can't assess any further damage without actually installing the new motor. I'm not happy with any of this I love that Jeep more every time I drive it. The service manager cant see it being anymore beyond the motor than the starter (which I know fried when I tried cranking a popped motor), and possibly the intake.

I did say that I wanted to go pull my aftermarket equipment. I have the choice where I can pull it or they'll include them in the payoff ( I doubt for full compensation but, I sent scans of the receipts anyway). I've never had a vehicle totaled before and not sure what the process is. They did say that we could keep it, but it would still be totaled and would need a salvage title. How does that affect it's insurance eligibility? Resale value would go to crap I'm sure. But it may be worth it to have my car back and not have to hunt for another one.

Holaday07 4.7
10-31-2011, 07:38 PM
I would buy it back. It would probably cost you $5,000 to buy it back. Although in all honesty, I hate a car that is always in the shop so depends if you have an extra car around

LWM
10-31-2011, 07:41 PM
Are you looking for another Commander or moving on? did you have any aftermarket items on your XK?

XK N00b
10-31-2011, 08:09 PM
I'm looking at getting another Commander, we'll see what the numbers are to get this taken care of. If we don't keep this one. I cant see there being further issues from this. It wasn't wet long enough to cause long term damage that I can see. (Maybe I'm blind) I'm trying to get them to reverse their decision, could be like talking to a wall though

XK N00b
10-31-2011, 08:15 PM
The aftermarket list is short, sliders, lift, belly guard and skid plate. I'm waffling between pulling the sliders off or going with a Steel Armadillo set ;)

NeilSmith
11-01-2011, 04:24 AM
if you buy it back it wont have a salvaged title. only salvaged title once its sold to a salvage company.

LWM
11-01-2011, 05:37 AM
if you buy it back it wont have a salvaged title. only salvaged title once its sold to a salvage company.

Not so sure about that, My daughter totaled our Camry here in AZ and I was told I could buy it but that it would have a salvage title which meant I could only have liability insureance, they would no longer cover any future damage to the camry itself.

Sal-XK
11-01-2011, 12:49 PM
Buying it back has it's pros but lots of cons. Might be better to take your money and start over who knows you might even come out a head.

NeilSmith
11-01-2011, 01:04 PM
Not so sure about that, My daughter totaled our Camry here in AZ and I was told I could buy it but that it would have a salvage title which meant I could only have liability insureance, they would no longer cover any future damage to the camry itself.
i may have misspoke. here in Va if there is a clear title w/ no liens then you can buy back and the title will not be salvaged. if the bank still has the title then the insurance co will get the title first and they can mark it salvaged before you ever see it.

DetroitMarauder
11-02-2011, 10:53 AM
If you have the room for it you could buy it back and part it out. Take what you need/want, sell the other parts and scrap the rest.

Adondo
11-02-2011, 04:08 PM
The ULTIMATE would be to get your hands on a 3.0L CRD turbo diesel as in exported Commanders. 500+ lb.-ft. of torque and 30+ MPG!!

I think I'd buy it back and motor-swap it. You can get crate motors from Summit Racing and other places. Or, stuff a Perkins diesel or the like in it. If you get another XK from the insurance, there's nothing to lose except time. And if there's an insurance salvage issue, make a door-less off-road buggy from it.

Frankly, I doubt the salvage thing would matter as you can get them re-certified again. I have a buddy who buys wrecked totals and rebuilds them for profit. He takes them to the state patrol and gets a new DOL something for them before resale. Many times a car/truck/SUV is "totalled" even if not that badly damaged, as in your case. The insurance companies just want out the cheapest and easy way, and repairs are too iffy for them.

Matt
11-02-2011, 04:11 PM
I'd shop around for a loaded 2010... first mod would be a snorkel.

I've swapped motors before and honestly, i'd rather start fresh; nothing like a clean slate.

Adondo
11-02-2011, 04:14 PM
I'd shop around for a loaded 2010... first mod would be a snorkel.

Tell your insurance agent about the snorkel... maybe it will qualify for a rates discount. :D

Matt
11-02-2011, 04:16 PM
lmao that'd be hilarious! And when he looks at you funny you can say "wellllll, it would've saved us a lot of trouble if i had it on my 2008 now wouldn't it have?"

XK N00b
11-05-2011, 07:09 PM
You guys crack me up :D I am currently shopping around for another Commander. Slim pickings though as mine was pretty well loaded and I'm (going to say the wife is) a bit picky about getting one as close to the previous as possible. I tried talking the insurance company into fixing ours but, no dice. Thinking again, I can see where they wouldn't want to risk prolonged repairs, though it was only in the water for 3-4 minutes, It took them two weeks to get an appraiser out to start making decisions. That's plenty of time for any water that may have gotten into the transfer case, transmission, differentials to start causing problems. Also, if I keep it, I'd still owe $4k after the payoff and still $10k in repairs that may not be as simple as a motor swap. Totaling it out, the payoff offer was enough to pay it off without using GAP insurance and a little bit of money coming back to apply to a down for a replacement. I really miss that car :( The rental for the last week has been a Yukon and it just doesn't measure up.

xhjeep
11-05-2011, 07:29 PM
Hmmm not good ...Reason I fitted an Airflow snorkel to my diesel after a friend did the same and hydro-locked his.. Totaled the power plant .... Expensive replacement so at about $500 for a snorkel makes a worthwhile investment... A lesson for all not to immediately hit the starter which is a natural reaction I guess... Good luck with it.

Matt
11-06-2011, 05:01 AM
At one time I remember there seeing an in-line valve that you could put right after the throttle body. The premise was that if your intake sucked in water, the pressure difference needed to pull that water into the intake would allow the valve to open so the valve would act as the new "inlet" for air.... think about it this way, if you clogged the intake, this valve would open, and water being sucked up is kind of like clogging the intake except the engine is capable of creating enough vacuum to pull the water all the way in.

I saw one a few years ago but haven't been able to find it recently.

The_War_Wagon
11-08-2011, 02:30 PM
tell your insurance agent about the snorkel... Maybe it will qualify for a rates discount. :d


BEST... LINE... EVER! :D

MY insurance agent just joined my church - I'm gonna show her this on Sunday, and see if I can get a discount! :p