ZJ Belt Squeak

[AJeepZJ]

I've included a picture. My belt has begun squeaking ever since it started getting cold. Just an FYI, the 96 V8 has a self-adjusting tensioner to the belt. The belt is not coming off track, it's not damaged (it's a brand new belt I put in), I've applied conditioner to the belt - and this worked untill it started getting cold.

The tensioner is not the cause of the squeak. I've included arrows on the picture as to what I think IS causing the squeak. Taps, squeaks, and creeks drive me insane - I MUST FIX this. In order to determine what THIS is, I need a little help.

Now that I've had a chance to break this ZJ in - I've found some issues I'd like to try and resolve.

First - What is the pulley that my arrows are pointing to (I think it's the water pump) and what does it control.
Second - Is there anything else that can cause the belt to squeak?
3rd - My heat ONLY works when the thermo is on max heat - What could be causing this and is it related to my squeak
4th - I've heard that if you here a squishing/gushing sound when you start the car and the AC/Heat is on - there is something wrong with the Heater Core - can anyone confirm, and is this a pricey fix - and is this related to my 3rd problem.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/11/BELTcommentate-1.jpg

Thats all for now.

[Sal-XK]

I've included a picture. My belt has begun squeaking ever since it started getting cold. Just an FYI, the 96 V8 has a self-adjusting tensioner to the belt. The belt is not coming off track, it's not damaged (it's a brand new belt I put in), I've applied conditioner to the belt - and this worked untill it started getting cold.

The tensioner is not the cause of the squeak. I've included arrows on the picture as to what I think IS causing the squeak. Taps, squeaks, and creeks drive me insane - I MUST FIX this. In order to determine what THIS is, I need a little help.

Now that I've had a chance to break this ZJ in - I've found some issues I'd like to try and resolve.

First - What is the pulley that my arrows are pointing to (I think it's the water pump) and what does it control.
Second - Is there anything else that can cause the belt to squeak?
3rd - My heat ONLY works when the thermo is on max heat - What could be causing this and is it related to my squeak
4th - I've heard that if you here a squishing/gushing sound when you start the car and the AC/Heat is on - there is something wrong with the Heater Core - can anyone confirm, and is this a pricey fix - and is this related to my 3rd problem.

Thats all for now.

How do you know it's not the tensioner?

1st Whats hooked up to it? Don't look like your alternator but maybe the compressor. Look and see what kind of lines are hooked to it.
2nd Lots of stuff can cause a squeak bro.
3rd what do you mean max heat using the temperature blend?
4th If you hear gushing or gurgling sounds it's probably air in the system that would be my guess.

[AJeepZJ]

1st - I don't have a pic available to show me whats hooked up to it. I'll get it first thing in the morning
2nd - Lets list those things, lol.
3rd - Heat only comes out when you turn the heat all the way up, not the fan. The temperature.
4th - Is this normal or is there a way to purge this air out.

[AJeepZJ]

It's definitely not the alternator, thats to the left. The arrows I think are pointing either to the Air Compressor or the Water Pump. Confirm?

[Sal-XK]

That would be weird water pump so I'll go with compressor.

Is your blend door operated by a cable it may need adjustment I'm not sure when they stopped using cables on those.

Everything that the belt drives can cause a squeak bro so that's a long list to include all the pulleys.

[NeilSmith]

alternator on the left, your arrow points to AC compressor, water pump is down there below in the middle ( I think, hard to see ) power steering pump bottom right. I replaced the tensioner pulley and the idler pulley yesterday, one of them was starting to make a grinding - bearing sound on start up in the cold. Fix it right up.

[NeilSmith]

a water pump can be the culprit when you hear a noise like that. they typically make a grinding noise cause the bearings are wearing out. the water pump of course will make it run hot and could affect your heat. the idler and tensioner pulleys are an easy and cheap fix, probably the cheapest place to start. the ones for the V6 Commander were $16 each from Advance. I would start here since you already did the belt. The ac compressor usually doesnt make a lot of noise , they just lock up. are you losing any antifreeze ? The water pump should have a weep hole where you would see some oily/antifreeze seepage.

[AJeepZJ]

I will check the the hole for seepage and antifreeze. (I also know it needs oil, but this wont cause the squeak). Yes I can tell the squeak is coming SPECIFICALLY from where those arrows are pointing. No where else. This squeak is different than from the summer. So what if it is the bearings for the AC Compressor going out. Can those be replaced easily?

[cico7]

I said WATER PUMP.....I am sure I said this once already but my comment disappeared

[Matt]

Does it only make the squeak when it starts up? And does it eventually go away?

PS I'm dissapointed you guys didn't know that was an AC Compressor. .. we need to have some open engine compartment discussions at our next meet!

[AJeepZJ]

Ummm... It does eventually go away.

[Matt]

Like after a minute or two?

[AJeepZJ]

I thought it was the water pump but was not sure. Umm, it goes away after 10-15 mins.

[Sal-XK]

I said WATER PUMP.....I am sure I said this once already but my comment disappeared

You must of messed up because I can see if it was removed and there's nothing there. :o

[Matt]

Yes I can tell the squeak is coming SPECIFICALLY from where those arrows are pointing. No where else.

Using what? Your calibrated ear drums?

OR one of these?

https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png


If I were you, i'd pick up one of those stethoscopes and probe around to pinpoint the actual origin of the squeak. The thing about metal and mechanical systems is that noises are transferred through components very quickly and they'll often resonate the most at a location further away then expected, causing you to look in the wrong spot for the root cause.

[Sal-XK]

^^^^LMAO

[Matt]

lol i wasn't being facetious

Customers don't like when you start throwing parts at a vehicle to eliminate the squeak they're complaining about. Those stethoscopes are a "must have" for this type of troubleshooting IMO :cool:

[NeilSmith]

Ive used an extension from a socket set , place it against the ear, not as good as a stethascope though

[NeilSmith]

we need to have some open engine compartment discussions at our next meet!
We have these at the meets just under different conditions and usually unintended. LOL !!

[AJeepZJ]

Although, funny - I have no idea why people won't just take my word for when I say it's "Coming From HERE". I've lost my interest in the topic and that's o.k., i'm going to do what I really don't want to do, and just take it to a mechanic.

[Sal-XK]

Although, funny - I have no idea why people won't just take my word for when I say it's "Coming From HERE". I've lost my interest in the topic and that's o.k., i'm going to do what I really don't want to do, and just take it to a mechanic.

Touchy today? :) The clutch and stuff can be replaced but you have to evac and refill the AC to do it so that's a hundo right there easy. Which AC system is that using because if it's the old stuff they won't touch it you'll have to convert it over. I understand what there saying about where the noise is it really is a tricky thing bro knowing for sure man. The fact that it goes away worries me that it isn't the compressor bro.

[Matt]

Because if its coming from there then you need to replace the compressor... $$$$$$$$$$

Are you $600 confident its coming from there? If so, replace it and see if the squeak goes away. Don't know what else to tell ya other than what I already did.... I'd spend $15 on an automotive stethoscope to be 100% certain that's the true origin of the noise because its not a cheap fix. Actually, its winter.... I bet They make an AC delete kit that would be cheaper...

[cico7]

You must of messed up because I can see if it was removed and there's nothing there. :o
I dont think it was removed, I think i doubled tapped it on my phone and then driod freaked....

AJ, I hear your words, read the print, but I still think it is the water pump....

[Matt]

... but I still think it is the water pump....

I'm leaning towards this as well since it seems to go away after 10-15min..... engine heats up, tstat opens, less load on impeller. Due to its location in the block, it could definitely sound like its coming from the compressor if you're standing over the motor.

[Matt]

AJ, what happens to the noise if you turn the AC on full blast right after you start up?

[AJeepZJ]

I dont think it was removed, I think i doubled tapped it on my phone and then driod freaked....

AJ, I hear your words, read the print, but I still think it is the water pump....
Water pump seems plausible.


I'm leaning towards this as well since it seems to go away after 10-15min..... engine heats up, tstat opens, less load on impeller. Due to its location in the block, it could definitely sound like its coming from the compressor if you're standing over the motor.



AJ, what happens to the noise if you turn the AC on full blast right after you start up?
The squeak is present, unless you want to know whether the frequency of the squeak changes. Squeak more, less, or unchanged - but I will find out.

[cico7]

My dad had a Cherokee sport with 4L that started squeeking. He thought it was the pulley. He bought and installed a new pully. It still squealed.
I asked why they didnt replace the water pump....cause it still squeaked. He had the pump replaced, squeek (squeak) gone.

[Matt]

The squeak is present, unless you want to know whether the frequency of the squeak changes. Squeak more, less, or unchanged - but I will find out.

If the squeak doesn't change significantly when the AC compressor clutch engages, then its probably not the compressor. Engaged vs disengaged is a different set of bearings and also rules out the clutch itself. So that would be a good test for peace of mind.

Expect the frequency of the squeak to change though because engaging the AC clutch will cause a fluctuation in engine RPM and load on the belt.

Let us know how it sounds. :)

[AJeepZJ]

I'll repost this - it didn't load correctly.

When the compressor engages - it squeaks louder. When I started the vehicle with a/c max it was loud - I tested it while driving and any time i turn on the A/C it comes on. It's my AC Compressor.

[superacerc]

Sounds like the bearings on the Compressor.

[Matt]

yup... that sucks:(

May i suggest: Dorman 34178. $30 ;)

[cico7]

Still think its the waterpump.....

[AJeepZJ]

Sounds like the bearings on the Compressor.

It is. Well Kinda.. All the problems I have are Heat/AC related. Heat only working when it's turned up all the way, A squeak that goes away after 10 minutes but returns when you turn on the Heat or AC. I've actually decided to sell it, but not because of these issues. I'm going to fix it, and sell it. I can't keep track of two vehicles in college. Especially when I head off to Army next year. I've become a little blind to some of the things that the WK needs. ZJ will be gone within the next month. I can start pumping money into my WK. If everything goes as planned... I'll have another grand sometime late next year.


yup... that sucks:(

May i suggest: Dorman 34178. $30 ;)

Got a link? What it will cost to fix actually ain't that bad at all. I can also replace the bearings, pulley and some other component for about 110, but you suggestion sure beats the hell out of that.

[Matt]

just Google the part number.. its an AC delete kit.

When you replace the bearings and stuff don't forget the a/c recharge. Its gonna be more than $100 for everything. BUT, if you want AC that's what you have to do...

[jcoulter]

Did you replace the bearing? How bad is it to pull?

[cico7]

Waterpump.....

[AJeepZJ]

Did you replace the bearing? How bad is it to pull?

Not yet - I'm going to replace it here in January probably.


Waterpump.....

If I made just 25 bucks for every time you keep saying water pump, I'd have enough money to replace the actual issue. (Which is NOT the waterpump)

[cico7]

Not yet - I'm going to replace it here in January probably.
If I made just 25 bucks for every time you keep saying water pump, I'd have enough money to replace the actual issue. (Which is NOT the waterpump)
ok. fine. if that were the case, you would have 25x3=nothing cause it's the water pump!

[Sal-XK]

ok. Fine. If that were the case, you would have 25x3=nothing cause it's the water pump!

lmao :D

[jcoulter]

I'm concerned to wait that long. If that thing locks up......

[AJeepZJ]

I'm concerned to wait that long. If that thing locks up......
If it were the water pump, that would be a concern.


ok. fine. if that were the case, you would have 25x3=nothing cause it's the water pump!

I hope you are not trying to be funny or serious - I honestly hope you are trying to waste my time.

[Matt]

I've seen plenty of A/C compressors lock up and rip the belt....

[cico7]

AJ, until it's fixed, until you have it apart, you will not know for certain. I am not above or beyond
wasting time, but I still believe, it's the waterpump. The AC still works correct? The heat works,
correct? I think it would have siezed and stopped working by now (the AC) but it hasnt.

Couple years ago I took my son's ZJ apart thinking a hose was bad because water suddenly flooded
the engine compartment steaming everything. When we were putting it back together, the belts
would not line up. The water pump belt was out of line. So I looked further and decided to take
the pump off. There was no leak, no seep, the pulley did not line up.When I took it apart, the
impellor had eaten 2/3 of the way through the housing.

Looked as though it were made that way until I pushed the impellor back out.

I wish i had a picture of it, but i was amazed.

After we did replace everything, leak was not from the radiator hose, it was the cleanout insert
someone installed to back flush the radiator.

[jcoulter]

At the risk of speaking too early, I went to the base auto shop and borrowed their stethoscope. I listened to every pulley and the only one that sounded off was the pully on the tensioner. WTF? I replaced it about 3 months ago. So now I'm thinking that instead of replacing just the pulley I'll replace the whole assy. Got it home and tried to take it off but I think when the dealer swapped the motor they jacked the bolt up. Great! :mad:

Then I remembered I had the old pulley from a couple of years ago. Swapped that one on there and the noise went away! I'm going to find a better one from somewhere other than Autozone.



Cliff notes: Go get an automotive stethoscope and check everything.

[jcoulter]

Well as I usually do I spoke to soon. Talked to a mechanic friend and he said to put some baby powder on the belt. If it kills the noise then it's the belt. Swear to God, baby powder.

So I stopped on the way home and picked some up. With the motor off I put some, 1 tsp or so, on the top of the tensioner pulley. Started the Jeep up and no squeal! Holy crap! Stopped today and bought a new belt. Problem solved!

That was a lot harder than it needed to be. lol That's just how I do things.