Who Should Jon Be

[cico7]

The question was raised and I thought it worth discussion or perhaps a vote.

Should Jon retain dual identities or become one with himself?

[cico7]

I think the single identity for 2 reasons:
1) Forum has a rule about having only one sign on and forum name
2) The more the name is seen, the more it is remembered. Nothing limits the posting of the manufacturer, unless you are
commenting on the thread of another manufacturer.....at that point, he should not comment if offers a competing part.

[DetroitMarauder]

I chose the first option. As I said in the thread he started, he owns the forum so he can with it what he wants. I'll trust him to keep the two separate.

[LWM]

Great question, and thanks for asking it. I look forward to the discussion.

My reason for two identities was this; Knappster is a regular owner of an XK who started a forum and wants to be just one of the guys. Steel Armadillo is a business and as such has it's own identity. It would be much easier for me to always log in as one ID and I am all for it unless there is a swing that suggests two identities makes more sense.

[Steel Armadillo]

I read the comments in the other thread and until the discussion comes to a conclusion I will use this ID for posting.

[Matt]

While I see Jon's point with keeping his knappster name as an "enthusiast", I think doing so has negative consequences on members who do not know he is the owner of SA.

To quote myself from the previous thread:


As far as the "two names" is concerned.... I think the two names are somewhat necessary. BUT, especially for the sake of new members, I think he should post primarily under the SA name. Its very confusing when he switches names mid-thread.

The knappster name should be used only in the "site comments/suggestions forum" where you would expect to receive feedback from an "administrator" OR in other forums when the topic pertains to site related issues. $.02


..... think of it this way, should vendors be allowed to have a non-vendor name to post under as well? I don't think so, otherwise they could post bias "reviews" for their products and the members would think its a "user" review which is a bit deceptive.

Edit: not saying that Jon would be deceptive on purpose. But as we've learned there are already members who didn't know he was the same person on both names. .... so up until now, his posts under the knappster name look like a forum regular promoting a business they like, not an owner promoting his own business.

EDIT:
To be clear, I voted for option 1 only because I think Jon should use Knappster ID for answering/resolving administrative/forum issues.

[Steel Armadillo]

While I see Jon's point with keeping his knappster name as an "enthusiast", I think doing so has negative consequences on members who do not know he is the owner of SA.

I added an AKA to BOTH signatures to help eliminate this concern as well. Thanks for pointing it out!

[El Cid]

As I've said elsewhere, the more I think it through the more one name makes sense (SA). And if it makes Jon's life easier than all the better. I can understand Jon wanting to still have the "one of the guys" part, but I'm afraid that ship sailed the moment he started his business. :(

[El Cid]

I should also add that if the forum rules say only one name than that seems to me to settle it -- unless the forum wants to have one set of rules for Steel Armadillo and one set for everyone else. I think that's a double standard, which is exactly what probably should be avoided unless this is going to become the Steel Armadillo forum (a possible option, though one with a lot of ramifications that don't strike me as appealing).

[HueyPilotVN]

It seems as though one main issue is the idenity that the reader perceives based on the screen name used. Maybe a solution for Jon is to choose which ever name he wants and to add a line in his signature that also clarifies his vendor status, moderator status, and enthusiast status as a Commander owner. I certainly am not confused by the two screen names but I caan see how a new member might be.

[Matt]

I don't think its a double standard if the forum owner retains an "administration name".... as long as its only used to respond to administrative issues.

For example if someone starts a thread in the site issues/comments forum requesting a change, it wouldn't make sense for SA to respond. Or if Jon wants to change something on the forum and wants our input so he starts a poll, the thread should be started by a forum administrator username, not a vendor.

Other vendors don't perform administrative duties, so its a special case.

[hoaxci5]

I don't think its a double standard if the forum owner retains an "administration name".... as long as its only used to respond to administrative issues.

For example if someone starts a thread in the site issues/comments forum requesting a change, it wouldn't make sense for SA to respond. Or if Jon wants to change something on the forum and wants our input so he starts a poll, the thread should be started by a forum administrator username, not a vendor.

Other vendors don't perform administrative duties, so its a special case.

In that case it should Admin or Administrator and not Knappster in my opinion.

[Matt]

I concur.... he has the power to change that. :)

Hell, he can even make his vendor name knappster.... like Mikes is El Cid for 4xg. That actually may be the best way for him to retain his "one of the guys" persona....

[El Cid]

Good points, all.

(It is a side note, Jon and mods, but at some point my membership needs to get changed from Supporting Vendor since I'm no longer 4xGuard in any official capacity; I totally didn't notice that until just now.)

[NeilSmith]

I simply find it amusing that nobody has voted for Jon to just be himself. HAHAHA !! Sorry, Jon. :) I voted for the first option myself.

[Matt]

The more I think about it, the more i think the best would be:

"Knappster" gets changed to "Admin" and sig says "Formerly Knappster".
"Steel Armadillo" gets changed to "Knappster" and sig says "ninja admin"


..... Ok, maybe we can do without the "ninja admin" part... but for those of us "in the know" it'd be kinda funny ;)

[Sal-XK]

I must be missing something here because I don't really see what the big deal is here. I don't know what prompted the PM from the other thread or why. I really never saw a issue with Jon having the two names so he could speak on behalf of his business and the forum. I would hope there are no personal reasons driving these latest developments. I also thought the issue was solved with Jon stepping down from taking any mod actions on the forum. We have two supermods and two regular mods now so I would think that is more then enough. I voted for option one because that keeps things the way they are. I am how ever glad these types of discussions can be had on the forum because you all know that a thread like this wouldn't fly anywhere else which is also evidence that things are working just fine. IMO

[07JeepXK]

I hate to say it, but who cares! Why is this becoming a big issue? Jon owns this forum and because of his love for Jeeps we all are able to participate and be members on this forum. I don't know about you guys, but I'm honored to be here and honored to be a Super Moderator. If the only reason you are here is to cause problems, then my advice is maybe you should go back to the "other forum". Lets all be adults, stop our whining and just have a good time on a great forum. There are a lot of knowledgeable members here that have put forth a lot of work to make this the Ultimate Jeep Forum.

[Matt]

Just to bring this a bit back down to earth..... I don't think there is actually an "issue" or that anyone has a problem.

Its a topic of discussion that came up and Jon wanted to get ideas/suggestions on what to do. Implicating that people are whining or starting trouble and "should go back to the other forum" is a bit rash and not what we're about here.

[Matt]

In other words.... I doubt anyone here would really be up in arms if Jon decided to keep his names as they are....

[07JeepXK]

Just to bring this a bit back down to earth..... I don't think there is actually an "issue" or that anyone has a problem.

Its a topic of discussion that came up and Jon wanted to get ideas/suggestions on what to do. Implicating that people are whining or starting trouble and "should go back to the other forum" is a bit rash and not what we're about here.

Just to clear a few things up. I said, "If the only reason you are here to cause trouble, then MAYBE you should go back to the other forum. No one here wants to deal with individuals that are here for the sole purpose of causing problems.

FWIW, I know the entire back ground on how this whole situation started.

[Matt]

You and that baggage..... :p

[SkidMarx]

Being new here, I didn't even realize SA and Knappster were the same person, or that he is the site owner.
'Site Owner' under his UID and "Owner of Steel Armadillo" in his sig(which he already did) would help clear things up.

That way, If I was coming here for the first time, I would assume that as the site owner he an enthusiast who has the best interest of the site in mind. but if I'm asking where I should buy [whatever] he will most likely point me to his site.

Trying to keep the 'Enthusiest owner' ID separate from the 'Vende'r ID seems shady even though I understand why it was done.
An 'Admin' ID might not be a bad idea.

I do think he should change his ID to
KnappsterTheOwnerOfThisSiteWhoAlsoHappensToOwnStee lArmadillo :)

my .02

[cico7]

I hate to say it, but who cares! .Well I would say jon does because he started the other thread.
I dont know anyone here for the purpose of causing trouble, but your comments and attitude are offensive as hell.
This poll was started as a format to discuss what more than one person saw a conflict of interest. If you dont understand that,
you shouldnt get involved in the discussion. Jon has a lot of supporters here and that is well and good. But as a business man
he has to take a longer look at the possibility of the conflicts and address them accordingly.

[cico7]

I do think he should change his ID to
KnappsterTheOwnerOfThisSiteWhoAlsoHappensToOwnStee lArmadillo :)

my .02
I like this idea too.
Oh, not everyone knew or was aware that Jon had stepped aside as an moderator/admin.

[strokeZ]

I think this has been said before, but I do support Jon participating as Steel Armadillo as long as he adheres to the guidelines put forth for other manufacturers on this forum. I would expect, given Jon's character that he has done this already. I see it no different than 4XGuard being on the forum and El Cid being a member, or Doc / Stone Soup or any of the others.

We as a forum need to remember that we have a limited production vehicle for all intents and purposes and we should foster any product development. Doc in AZ, Bigred...., Jon and El Cid (when representing 4XG) are in here to help their business and to help us better our vehicles.

No one is going to become a Bill Gates making products for our rigs - especially given the limited folks that are interested, but hey it does need to be profitable.

There is absolutely no need for childish bullsh&t on our forum. I see that all the time on the other forums (Jeep and BMW) and that is one reason why I joined this one.

Now that I have said my $0.02 I feel MUCH better.

[Sal-XK]

Lets not forget that the forum came first! It was made to fill a need for members to be free to talk and discuss what we wanted without censorship. We needed a place to talk about businesses and products without getting band for it. The business came second after 4xG went up for sale and created a hole in our market because we didn't know who or if anyone would be purchasing it and then what direction they might be taking it in. Myself and several members here have put a lot of work into this forum and did a lot of recruiting to get people over her and we would not have done that if this forum wasn't awesome! I've never seen any thing malicious on this forum and never seen any member including Jon do anything except for the good of our community and the growth of our hobby. I to don't understand why someone thought there was a problem and no I don't know who they are or even if there regular members here. From what I've read here so far that one or two people brought this up and wrote a third person to bring it forward and based on the discussion in both threads by the forum members it seems there really isn't a issue here except that the new people did not know who Jon Jon was. This is something easily fixed by Jon's sig and also I could add a brief explanation to the welcome message that I do try to give to every new member now for the last few months. In case the old members didn't know a few months ago we started sending welcome messages to all new members.

[El Cid]

I hate to say it, but who cares! Why is this becoming a big issue? Jon owns this forum and because of his love for Jeeps we all are able to participate and be members on this forum. I don't know about you guys, but I'm honored to be here and honored to be a Super Moderator. If the only reason you are here is to cause problems, then my advice is maybe you should go back to the "other forum". Lets all be adults, stop our whining and just have a good time on a great forum. There are a lot of knowledgeable members here that have put forth a lot of work to make this the Ultimate Jeep Forum.

Who cares?

Forum members do, as a matter of fact. You know, the members of the forum you're supposed to be helping out as a Super Moderator? The ones who made this more than just Jon talking to himself in a vacuum? Indeed, if you look around, maybe it's even some of those "knowledgeable members" who have done so much for the place?

Frankly, I daresay that your response here, 07JeepXK, is the first time that anyone has acted like less than an adult when it comes to this matter, the first time anyone has treated anyone else with anything less than professional respect.

I'm glad you're honored to be a Super Moderator. You should be. It's a badge that carries with it a lot of responsibilities. I think it also carries some expectations, though, and one of them is to respond to matters not emotionally but rationally, thinking not short-term but long-term.


Being new here, I didn't even realize SA and Knappster were the same person, or that he is the site owner. 'Site Owner' under his UID and "Owner of Steel Armadillo" in his sig(which he already did) would help clear things up.

That way, If I was coming here for the first time, I would assume that as the site owner he an enthusiast who has the best interest of the site in mind. but if I'm asking where I should buy [whatever] he will most likely point me to his site.

Trying to keep the 'Enthusiest owner' ID separate from the 'Vende'r ID seems shady even though I understand why it was done.

Nicely (and rationally) said, SkidMarx. And welcome!

As you can see, 07JeepXK, there is plenty of evidence that there is already a problem (and that no one is causing it out of malice). This might be a minor problem now -- a few folks don't know who is who -- but it's a problem that will inevitably grow over time and increase in its complexity.

To put this in terms we can all understand:

Imagine that this forum is the Ultimate Jeep (see what I did there?). You've been driving it for a while. It's been running great. Takes you where you want to go, does it with style, and you sure as hell enjoy the ride on the way. Only one day you happen to hear this intermittent grinding in the differential. It's there for a little bit, and then it's gone. A few days later it grinds again and then goes away. It isn't constant, and you don't think the Ultimate Jeep you've been driving is going to explode or anything -- nothing so dire as that -- but you're also pretty sure that it would be better if the diff didn't grind like that. So what do you do?

If it's me, I try to fix the minor problem before it becomes a major problem.

I sure haven't had much luck with telling the problem it's stupid and should go away.


I think this has been said before, but I do support Jon participating as Steel Armadillo as long as he adheres to the guidelines put forth for other manufacturers on this forum. I would expect, given Jon's character that he has done this already. I see it no different than 4XGuard being on the forum and El Cid being a member, or Doc / Stone Soup or any of the others.

I don't think anyone is not supportive of Jon and his new venture. I for one have tried to give one-on-one advice to Jon in person and over the wires not only on how to improve some of his products but also how to leverage his position in the marketplace.

This is not about whether anyone likes or dislikes Jon or SA (or anyone/thing else, for that matter). At least not to me it's not. I see it simply as a matter of transparency that could cause problems down the road (problems, in fact, that could easily harm Jon's business).

As for the examples you give, one major difference is that there was no 4xGuard account doing any posting. There was only me, El Cid (back before the business was sold). Just one account. Same with Doc/Soup. Jon is the only one with two accounts, which is the key matter under discussion here.

The discussion in the "conflict of interest" thread is pertinent to the other major difference in the examples. I had no ability to delete comments, ban members, etc. no matter what they said about 4xGuard's products. Jon very much does have that ability (though, as stated, he says he won't use it).

...

All that said, I'd like to change my vote to Jon being just "Knappster" -- assuming he wants to keep that name, like I did my "El Cid" moniker, and then have sig and branding make clear he's SA -- except when he's talking as owner of the forum and uses the name Admin (or Forum Deity or the like), and that the sigs would cross-reference. Transparency ought to put the issue to bed (like Sal's suggestion of an explanation in a welcome message or whatever).

And I'd go for "Forum Deity," Jon. When you hold the cards, man, play 'em.

[El Cid]

Forgot to respond to this:


I to don't understand why someone thought there was a problem and no I don't know who they are or even if there regular members here. From what I've read here so far that one or two people brought this up and wrote a third person to bring it forward and based on the discussion in both threads by the forum members it seems there really isn't a issue here except that the new people did not know who Jon Jon was.

I'd like to hope that it's just one or two folks, Sal, but at the same time my gut tells me that it's not so simple.

Given the fact that bringing up the issue is taking on the administrative power of the forum and that no one wants to be banned from the Ultimate Jeep Forum -- talk about embarrassment! -- I suspect that the small number of minority voices actually represents a larger sample of silent and shaking opinion.

At least that's how such things usually work.

I'd be happy to be wrong, though.

[Bigredmariner]

I would personally stay away from "Forum Deity", heck man I had to go google that. If this was a forum for drinking tea or playing golf that title might work, I still have grease under my nails and that title just baffled me. Just sayin'

[SkidMarx]

I would personally stay away from "Forum Deity", heck man I had to go google that. If this was a forum for drinking tea or playing golf that title might work, I still have grease under my nails and that title just baffled me. Just sayin'
How about 'Supreme Forum Overlord'.

[Bigredmariner]

Owner, Owner/ Admin. Simple works pretty good for most people. The "Overlord" thing is funny though.

[cico7]

Big Gun
Top Dawg
HA, Lord of the Forum!

[LWM]

I do have one I made way back in the beginning for the fun of it... Commander & Chief :)

[Sal-XK]

Forgot to respond to this:



I'd like to hope that it's just one or two folks, Sal, but at the same time my gut tells me that it's not so simple.

Given the fact that bringing up the issue is taking on the administrative power of the forum and that no one wants to be banned from the Ultimate Jeep Forum -- talk about embarrassment! -- I suspect that the small number of minority voices actually represents a larger sample of silent and shaking opinion.

At least that's how such things usually work.

I'd be happy to be wrong, though.

I would be terribly disappointed in this forum if someone was banned for raising a concern of any kind about this forum and the direction it is or might be headed in. I respect every ones opinion on this forum and feel they are free to express that opinion. I also think that if there are members that have an opinion on this subject that they should post here and let us know so we may discuss it publicly and yes without fear of anything. I wouldn't stand for a member being punished for just expressing his opinion and I know most the other members here would not either. As long as any changes made are for the greater good of our hobby and this forum then I am on board with them. I know all decisions I make and effort I put in I always keep that one saying in mine " is this for the greater good of the forum and our hobby" and if I can't answer yes then I stop doing what ever it is I was doing. I feel Jon does the same thing and I'm guessing after reading these posts again that's not what was in question. I know the saying that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Jon has already agreed to give up his mod duty and seems very open to any suggestions we have to get this straightened out so were on the right track here and also show's why this forum is the best one out there.

[NeilSmith]

I hate to say it, but who cares! Why is this becoming a big issue? Jon owns this forum and because of his love for Jeeps we all are able to participate and be members on this forum. I don't know about you guys, but I'm honored to be here and honored to be a Super Moderator. If the only reason you are here is to cause problems, then my advice is maybe you should go back to the "other forum". Lets all be adults, stop our whining and just have a good time on a great forum. There are a lot of knowledgeable members here that have put forth a lot of work to make this the Ultimate Jeep Forum.

X2. I have to say that I believe that the whole supposed issue has been blown WAY out of proportion. Everyone just chill and go on with life, its an internet forum for Pete's sake. We all want the same thing in the end, good advice, good friends, and good products, so lets all just make it happen.

[07JeepXK]

X2. I have to say that I believe that the whole supposed issue has been blown WAY out of proportion. Everyone just chill and go on with life, its an internet forum for Pete's sake. We all want the same thing in the end, good advice, good friends, and good products, so lets all just make it happen.

Apparently several members were offended by that comment I made. So you shouldn't be agreeing with me.

[cico7]

Out of all people you think my comments were offensive?the term offensive is relative, objectionable is a better descriptor. But as you see, i am not the only person who felt you were out of order.

[NeilSmith]

Apparently several members were offended by that comment I made. So you shouldn't be agreeing with me.
I offend myself usually, so its ok. :)

[Matt]

I do have one I made way back in the beginning for the fun of it... Commander & Chief :)

So what's your current thought on this? Going to post primarily under Knappster?

I've noticed that you usually take the advice of the group and add your own final touches on..... so far always resulting in a positive end result. Any twists coming for the multiple personalities formerly known as "Jon" ? Lol

[cico7]

Out of all people you think my comments were offensive?


the term offensive is relative, objectionable is a better descriptor. But as you see, i am not the only person who felt you were out of order.

Here is another example of censorship, he deleted his post. Are you going to delete this too?

[cico7]

X2. I have to say that I believe that the whole supposed issue has been blown WAY out of proportion. Everyone just chill and go on with life, its an internet forum for Pete's sake. We all want the same thing in the end, good advice, good friends, and good products, so lets all just make it happen.
The intent here (this thread) was to discuss the who, not the why. We are here (this thread) only to help Jon find his identity.
He is lost without our help. We are here for YOU Jon. If there is anything you want to know, just ask.....

[07JeepXK]

Here is another example of censorship, he deleted his post. Are you going to delete this too?

Actually, Im at work and was editing the post right after i wrote what I did and got the blue screen of death on my government computer as I was doing it. When I was able to get the computer up and running again my post was no where to be found. I dont write posts...post them and then delete my comments afterwords. That would make no sense. I have nothing to hide. And further more, why why I delete your recent post?

[cico7]

Actually, Im at work and was editing the post right after i wrote what I did and got the blue screen of death on my government computer as I was doing it. When I was able to get the computer up and running again my post was no where to be found. I dont write posts...post them and then delete my comments afterwords. That would make no sense. I have nothing to hide. And further more, why why I delete your recent post?
what?
So this is where my tax dollars are going? Paying people to talk on forums while they are supposed to be working?
(that was just a little dig, not a serious remark, otherwise, when would Sal get to talk to us?)

[07JeepXK]

Its funny because im actually getting a lot of work done. lol Just good at multi-tasking. Im not on often while at work but appear to be the only on in the office today?!?!

[El Cid]

Apparently several members were offended by that comment I made. So you shouldn't be agreeing with me.

Why do I picture you pouting here? ;)

Seriously, I don't think anyone is really "offended" here. In terms of your comments, the point was that at least some of us are concerned about the fact that your reaction, as a Super Moderator, was to belittle the forum members who think this is a valid forum issue.

Whether you agree or not, the simple fact is that some folks -- myself included -- were concerned about the long-term impact of having someone consistently posting across the site under two names. It is a fact that this was confusing many people. It is also a fact that it happens to be in violation of forum rules unless there is one standard for Jon and one for the rest of us. The issue was thus raised because it could adversely affect the long-term health of what has been a growing and vibrant forum (if you don't understand why this is so, I tried to get something similar across in the Conflict of Interest thread).

However, nobody is screaming about the issue that I can see. No one is "whining." No one is kicking sand or threatening to burn the whole place down if they don't get their stapler back. It certainly isn't anything personal. I've yet to see anyone, anywhere on this site, go into "flame war" mode. People (particularly prospective supporting vendors) just want clarity. Getting an answer, in other words, might be more important than what the answer actually is.

I for one am trying to help. I am trying to ensure that this wonderful forum continues to bloom. I think that's what you want, too. That means we're on the same side. Telling me I'm childish and overreacting or that I need to put my head back in the sand, therefore, can only serve to harm what we both want to preserve. How about instead we come together for a communal, constructive solution that is to the betterment of all -- just as Jon has helped to make happen through his laudable and highly constructive decision to take the bull by the horns and make this a public and transparent discussion?

. . .

As Matt suggests, I think the only thing left is to get the final decision of Jon/Knappster/SA/Owner/Admin/Forum Father in light of our collective thoughts. It's his choice in the end, though he has kindly considered our input.

Everyone will then know how he wants to proceed, and forum members (or potential members) can decide how they want to proceed.

So what say you, Jon?

[cico7]

I like the way bigredmariner formatted his ID.
His moniker
supporting vendor
and ad at the bottom.
Would be an easy way to identify both. When you are talking to other vendors, that would be a good time for disclosure.

[Matt]

That's kind of why I liked the thought of making Knappster the username for the SA Rep.... like El Cid was the username of 4xg's Rep. It retains his "one of the guys" persona as opposed to posting with the SA username.... when the username is the name of a company it seems (to me) to lose that "I'm one of you guys" personality....

Then he'd just need to make an administrator name to answer/respond to "site" issues. I think the benefit here would also help him keep track of "who" he's logged in under. Lol there have been many occasions already where both knappster and SA seemed to be talking to each other in the same thread..... Jon you feeling OK??? lmao!

[LWM]

So what's your current thought on this? Going to post primarily under Knappster?

The decision I have made is that I will post under Knappster with a comment line in my signature that I am the owner of The Steel Armadillo. I will set up an Administrator Account which will be used when the topic being addressed is the operations of the forum and has nothing specifically to do with the Jeep Commander or The Steel Armadillo. Any questions or concerns, feel free to send me a PM.

[GPintheMitten]

I should also add that if the forum rules say only one name than that seems to me to settle it -- unless the forum wants to have one set of rules for Steel Armadillo and one set for everyone else. I think that's a double standard, which is exactly what probably should be avoided unless this is going to become the Steel Armadillo forum (a possible option, though one with a lot of ramifications that don't strike me as appealing).

I think the claim that it is a double standard is a little harsh. That statement ignores his articulated intent as to why he did this. However, he is one of the guys and will always be one of the guys, just like you are and have been for years. You posted on the other forum a lot of news and opinions about 4XGuard without being a sponsor and I think you walked over that line a few times. When 4XGuard became a supporting vendor here, perhaps you should have asked that your userid be retired in lieu of 4XGuard userid so that when you posted as one of the guys, we could all weigh and suspect your motivations everytime you posted.

But as you make the claim, I suspect you will be successful in getting your preference about him, that it be one userid because he's not going to want to think of himself as practicing double standards. So congratulations on playing the card that will get your way in this.

I feel that Jon has explained himself very well and has been very upfront about who he is regardless of which userid he uses. And I don't care that he uses two userids. But if he decides to go to one userid, he should feel free to keep whichever userid he wishes, either Knappster or SteelArmadillo.

Edit to Add: The poll option that I would pick is not available: Jon should do whichever he is most comfortable with.

[GPintheMitten]

Huh?
I thought anyone could delete their own post. That wouldn't be censorship.


Here is another example of censorship, he deleted his post. Are you going to delete this too?

[cico7]

Huh?
I thought anyone could delete their own post. That wouldn't be censorship.
If you are a moderator and delete a controversial statement to hide something you said, I feel it censorship.
He did come back and explain what had happened to his post...and the subject was dropped.

Jon began this discussion on another thread because of what may appear to be a conflict of interest.
This thread was to get feed back on identity. The intent here (this thread) was to discuss the who, not the why

[07JeepXK]

...and I appologize for the statements that I made earlier in the thread. They were a bit harsh.

[Matt]

...and I appologize for the statements that I made earlier in the thread. They were a bit harsh.

...careful.... Sal might fill this thread full of "huggy smilies" if you keep talking like that https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

[cico7]

Ok, I forgive you.

...and I appologize for the statements that I made earlier in the thread. They were a bit harsh.

[07JeepXK]

...careful.... Sal might fill this thread full of "huggy smilies" if you keep talking like that https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

This is true....

[El Cid]

But as you make the claim, I suspect you will be successful in getting your preference about him, that it be one userid because he's not going to want to think of himself as practicing double standards. So congratulations on playing the card that will get your way in this.

I'm going to let your attacks go, GPintheMitten.

If you cannot see that this discussion was in the best interests of the forum ... if you insist on ignoring my repeated statements that I was never trying to force a decision one way or another but simply wanted clarity about the facts as they stand ... if you insist on making this something personal ...

Well, I'm afraid we're simply talking on completely different CB channels.

Jon, I once again applaud you for maintaining the openness of the forum. I think it will serve us all well as both the Ultimate Jeep Forum and Steel Armadillo grow and expand.

[GPintheMitten]

This comes under the whatever category:

Yah, well, you "feel" that is could have been censorship. OK, feel it. But I can delete my post and you can delete your post and I wouldn't call it censorship. I think perhaps you are a bit oversensitive to censorship.

And for that matter if you only raised this for discussing the who, not why, why do even bring up your concern that 07 appeared to have deleted one of his posts.

I understand now, that the issue may be mute, but come on, everyone is not out to get everyone.


If you are a moderator and delete a controversial statement to hide something you said, I feel it censorship.
He did come back and explain what had happened to his post...and the subject was dropped.

Jon began this discussion on another thread because of what may appear to be a conflict of interest.
This thread was to get feed back on identity. The intent here (this thread) was to discuss the who, not the why

[GPintheMitten]

I'm not personally against you, but against what you said. I did not like you saying that Jon was practicing a double standard. Without knowing his motivation and not having his explanation, I could understand your claim. But I think the whole connotation about a double standard is a negative one that does not represent Jon fairly. That is why I said what I said to you. The only thing that was doubled in my mind is his count of userids. And as a new forum owner, I can understand him doing that.

I applaud Jon for his openness as well. He has made his decision and I did not read the whole thread when I responded but even if I had, I don't like your statement. Nothing personal, just defending my friend from what I perceived as a negative attack, despite all the other nice stuff you said.

Maybe others didn't like the phrase "double standard" either, I don't know. But obviously, I didn't.

Nope, not personal just strongly felt base on what you yourself said. But if you feel it is personal.....well, you just don't understand my position.

But best wishes for everything in the future.


I'm going to let your attacks go, GPintheMitten.

If you cannot see that this discussion was in the best interests of the forum ... if you insist on ignoring my repeated statements that I was never trying to force a decision one way or another but simply wanted clarity about the facts as they stand ... if you insist on making this something personal ...

Well, I'm afraid we're simply talking on completely different CB channels.

Jon, I once again applaud you for maintaining the openness of the forum. I think it will serve us all well as both the Ultimate Jeep Forum and Steel Armadillo grow and expand.

[cico7]

I started the part of the discussion that brought about thedouble standards comments...i believe...and that is because of Jons question about his name, on the other post. I said something about a forum rule you cant have 2 log in names. If the rule exists, and Jon has 2 log in names, I believe as well it is a double standard. Gerry this was not brought about the bitch about Jon and the forum, i would do that elsewhere.No part of this was an attackkn anyanyone.

[GPintheMitten]

Hi Don,

Can we be friends? ...or will my request be denied;)

Peace, bro.

Gerry

[cico7]

LOL... absolutely we are friends, as long as you dont want to hug me.....
Hi Don,

Can we be friends? ...or wqeoill my request be denied;)

Peace, bro.

Gerry

[pjmjr508]

LOL... absolutely we are friends, as long as you dont want to hug me.....


LOL