View Full Version : Would you remove the front frame support for a better bumper?
Here is the question...
I have spent the past month trying to come up with a front bumper that I like and I keep running into the same problem, the front cross bar is in the way. Look at these photos and take them into consideration when you answer the question:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/IMAG0371-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/IMAG0372-1.jpg
In this version, the winch sits in front of the cross bar, I have three choices:
1) leave it where it is
2) mount it above the cross bar (no real support available)
3) remove the cross bar and mount the winch in that location
option 3 does several things, by moving the winch back towards the grill and up a little I can GREATLY increase the approach angle, I can reduce the size of the bumper, bumper weighs less and in my opinion a better looking bumper is installed.
If you are willing to remove the center support, I would provide a replacement support which would be installed PRIOR to cutting out the center support for frame integrity.
In the second photo you can see the 4xGuard skid plate installed, with this bumper modification I would be able to keep the approach angle that you see in the skid plate and the bumper would come down to that point for a continuation of protection.
What are your thoughts?
I would cut it out.... but i can see where others may be hesitant.
Most suspension manufacturers offer replacement bracketry for suspension items that require cutting to install their lifts. So if you buy their lift, you know that if yyou ever want to return it back to stock you can just buy the replacement bracket. Might be something to offer with option 3... let them know you will sell/provide a bracket in the event they ever want to remove the bumper and go back to stock.
Edit: just realized that i didn't fully understand your post... looks like you already said exactly what i said about having a "replacement crossmember" :)
I just realized that i didn't fully understand your post... looks like you already said exactly what i said about having a "replacement crossmember" :)
Correct, If you cut out your OEM cross member there would be a replacement piece that everything would bold onto instead. Going back to stock really isn't an option unless you want to buy new fenders since you have to do some cutting on those anyway (but it is possible).
That's a good point....
So my vote stands! Cut it out, move that winch back, smooth it up, then give me one ;)
pjmjr508
12-07-2011, 05:03 PM
Cut it out, I like the closer & cleaner look. Plus don't really see a down side, will be getting a bracket to use that will keep the needed support.
Would like to see pics once completed & how much. Would be nice to have this before Moab along a front guard.
WanderingTs
12-07-2011, 06:29 PM
When you talk about modifying the frame, you are now modifying the basic engineering of the Jeep's design. That piece is the way it is for a reason...maybe not a good reason, or maybe you could make it better and stronger, but still I don't know why Jeep made it that way so changing it doesn't appeal to me.
Just as a marketing thing, I think you will limit your sales numbers to those folks much more hardcore than otherwise might be interested if you get into frame modifications. If I understand what you are asking, it also eliminates self-install for those of us who aren't up to home welding but can do most bolt on applications.
The Getlost bumper required that we cut off the ends of the front bar, they served no purpose that I could determine anyway so I did not have an issue with that. The front cross bar is what the bumper is attached to and the hood latch but I do not see any real structural purpose for it other than a mounting point for those two items.
My design would be the center section and then replace it with something else, similar to what was done here:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/DSCF0987-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/DSCF0988-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/DSCF0990-1.jpg
Except instead of an overlay like the example shown, I would make a complete replacement piece that would connect on both sides to the actual frame structure and provide the mounting plate for the winch.
Im with Jon on this...
As long as you're replacing that section with something as strong as, or stronger, to meet your purpose, there's no problem. I would hope that it is "bolt in" however.... if you limit the installation to require welding, that will definitely shy people away.
But structurally, stronger is better there.
hoaxci5
12-07-2011, 07:14 PM
Even though I intend to keep my Jeep for a long time, I don't ever like modifying my vehicles in a way that they can't be returned to stock.
criket
12-07-2011, 08:56 PM
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/Full_House_Joey_Cut_It_OutTlink-1.jpg
And then put something stronger back in. And then why not plate the subframe in front? Is that posible? (btw, I'm leading up to an SFA swap with this last question)
I would hope that it is "bolt in" however.... if you limit the installation to require welding, that will definitely shy people away.
It will be a bolt on assembly. And I can design a piece to replace the stock crossbar IF you ever wanted to go back to stock (like I said the stock piece only holds the bumper mount & the latch support).
And then why not plate the subframe in front?
I am not sure what part you are referring too here (as the sub frame) but the skid plate and bumper combination will provide a flat plate all the way through
It will be a bolt on assembly. And I can design a piece to replace the stock crossbar IF you ever wanted to go back to stock (like I said the stock piece only holds the bumper mount & the latch support).
The stock piece does a bit more than that. It adds torsional stability. The replacement piece would need to be more than a little bracket for the latch..... but it wouldn't take much to match the strength of what's there now.
CT-riverrat
12-08-2011, 04:29 AM
I voted no. Only because I'm not as comfortable as some of you guys modifying my daily driver. That being said, the prototype looks awesome! Then, I'm only mildly above average in my wrenching capability.
Maybe the poll needs to be refined:
1) yes I would cut that piece, and I plan on installing an aftermarket steel bumper someday.
2) yes I would cut that piece, but I don't plan on changing my bumpers.
3) No I would not cut that piece, but I would like a steel replacement bumper
4) No I would not cut that piece, but I don't plan on changing my bumpers on this vehicle.
..... I just have a theory that *most* people who would be putting an aftermarket steel winch bumper on their vehicle wouldn't mind cutting that region if its required to tuck in the winch and really streamline the design.... and that *most* people who wouldn't cut that piece probably aren't planning on swapping the stock bumpers for steel replacements (but I could be wrong.... hence the poll suggestion)
Jon.... you also mentioned different bumpers. Maybe the non-wincher version wouldn't require cutting?
New thread created with updated poll.
Would you remove the front frame support for a better WINCH bumper?
1) yes I would cut that piece, and I plan on installing an aftermarket steel bumper someday.
2) yes I would cut that piece, but I don't plan on changing my bumpers.
3) No I would not cut that piece, but I would like a steel replacement winch bumper
4) No I would not cut that piece, but I would like a steel replacement non-winch bumper
5) No I would not cut that piece, but I don't plan on changing my bumpers on this vehicle.
http://www.theultimatejeep.com/showthread.php/1495-Would-you-remove-the-front-frame-support-for-a-better-WINCH-bumper
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