c1417 - Front Differential Control Circuit Low

[hoaxci5]

So I was parking off the road in the snow today (2 wheels off road, 2 wheels on pavement) to take the kids sledding today and the service 4wd popped up on the read out. Read the code with my flashpaq and got c1417.. I can't find any real answers in my searches, there are a couple of people who posted up asking for help and then never came back with what the solution was, so does anyone have any input?

One thread here (http://www.jeepcommander.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10008)

The only other answer I found was to change the battery since our Jeeps do weird things when the batteries start to age, this was already on my radar, so I'll try to snag one Monday when we get back home.

Other things to note, I cleared the code and it came right back so I don't think it's a fluke. My Jeep is an 07 with QDII.

Thanks for any help, I promise I'll post the solution once I have it :p

[Matt]

Being the holidays I'm running house to house. But I promise when I get a chance ill pull out my manuals and read up on it for ya.

[WanderingTs]

Check underneath near the transfer case for a small fluid leak. I got many different service 4X4 codes when the seal keeping the transfer case fluid out of the 4X4 shifting motor failed. This flooded the motor causing a small couple-drops-a-day fluid leak which was the only sign other than the service light. Jeep dealer told me this was a known issue, not common, but happens. Not high on the suspect list but something pretty easy to check for.

[hoaxci5]

Thanks Matt that would be great, no rush I won't be looking at anything until Monday anyways..
Wandering, I'll take a look but I haven't noticed any fluid in my garage where I park normally.

I'm still under my extended warranty, but I always try to diagnose first because they can decline the claim if it's an "offroad" problem like a dirty plug or something.. and I'm just scared of getting screwed by service advisers.

[hoaxci5]

Poke Poke, I see you have the service manual out today :D

[Matt]

ah $hit...

lol let me get them back out (PS, my memory sucks!)

[Matt]

Here you go man (again.. sorry for some of the pics being blurry)

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111227221339-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111227221352-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111227221406-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111227221417-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111227221428-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111227221437-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111227221453-1.jpg

[Sal-XK]

I have an online link in the parts link page to the manual if I remember correctly.

[Matt]

I have an online link in the parts link page to the manual if I remember correctly.

Pretty sure that's just the parts manual... not the service manual, right?

[Sal-XK]

I do have a link for the manual I thought I put it on there.

[Matt]

I may have a few beers in me... but even though you labelled them as "service manuals", they end up being "parts manuals"..

[hoaxci5]

Thanks I've got lots of work ahead of me..

[Sal-XK]

I may have a few beers in me... but even though you labelled them as "service manuals", they end up being "parts manuals"..
LOL no its a parts manual. I do have a link for the manual though on one of my computers lol

[Matt]

LOL no its a parts manual. I do have a link for the manual though on one of my computers lol

lol well dude you better hurry up and find that pdf'd service manual... it'll be a lot easier helping people out here if i can just click CTRL-F hahaha

[Sal-XK]

lol well dude you better hurry up and find that pdf'd service manual... it'll be a lot easier helping people out here if i can just click CTRL-F hahaha

Takes to long to boot that computer up LOL

[Matt]

Turn it on now.. it'll be ready to go in the morning ;)

[hoaxci5]

And if it needs a home on the internet, I can find a spot on my server.. so get on it Sal jeez.

[Sal-XK]

You guys are a PITA :p

[Matt]

lol, i'll take that as a compliment!

[hoaxci5]

pssh we just want a pdf file, matt went to all the trouble of posting several pictures. Step up your game :p

[Matt]

pssh we just want a pdf file, matt went to all the trouble of posting several pictures. Step up your game :p

you tell'em!

.... i guess im just a nicer guy...

[Sal-XK]

you tell'em!

.... i guess im just a nicer guy...

Ok ok I turned the thing on LOL

[Matt]

Ok ok I turned the thing on LOL

hahahaha the lights in my house just dimmed.... damn that must be an ancient machine!

[Sal-XK]

It's still booting up LOL the chilton is online at the Michigan DMV web site too. I have that link on there as well!

[Sal-XK]

I'm still looking for the link but if you go to this site HERE (https://elibrary.mel.org/validate?url=http://0-infotrac.galegroup.com.elibrary.mel.org:80/itweb/lom_accessmich%3Fdb%3DCHLL) in the enter the Driver license just type any letter then any 12 numbers you want and you get access to the chiltons manual for any vehicle.

[Sal-XK]

Oh I see you guys make me boot the thing up and then you guys go to bed real nice :p

[Matt]

Oh I see you guys make me boot the thing up and then you guys go to bed real nice :p

Lol hey in my defense I didn't expect to see it until morning!

That online chilton link is very limited too... its good, but not even close to the service manual.

.....and yes, I posts this from my phone in bed cause I can't sleep!

[Sal-XK]

Lol hey in my defense I didn't expect to see it until morning!

That online chilton link is very limited too... its good, but not even close to the service manual.

.....and yes, I posts this from my phone in bed cause I can't sleep!

The chilton is limited but covers all makes so it comes in handy some times. The link I sent when it all works is pretty good but probably still not as good as the books I would imagine.

[valpacer]

Hey SAl,
I have a 143Mb PDF manual 2005 WK Genuine Jeep if thats of use. The only thing it doesnt include is the 3.0 Diesel motor.

Let me know an d ill put it on a freeshare place somewhere.

Dave

[Sal-XK]

Hey SAl,
I have a 143Mb PDF manual 2005 WK Genuine Jeep if thats of use. The only thing it doesnt include is the 3.0 Diesel motor.

Let me know an d ill put it on a freeshare place somewhere.

Dave

That would be cool! Thanks man!

[valpacer]

http://www.filefactory.com/file/c1acca1/n/2005-WK-SM.PDF

Get that into ya!

[Sal-XK]

http://www.filefactory.com/file/c1acca1/n/2005-WK-SM.PDF

Get that into ya!

Thanks man! I'll add it to my drop box for everyone.

[valpacer]

Sorry Guys, just checked that dl page out, first time i've used that host, the dl link is at the bottom of the page, past all the ad crap. If it doesn't work or takes too long let me know and ill put it somewhere else.

Dave

[Sal-XK]

Sorry Guys, just checked that dl page out, first time i've used that host, the dl link is at the bottom of the page, past all the ad crap. If it doesn't work or takes too long let me know and ill put it somewhere else.

Dave

Ya I hate that site it sucks. I haven't been on a computer yet so I haven't down loaded it yet. You should check out dro box it's free and real easy.

[valpacer]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/55318721/2005-WK-SM.PDF Service Manual

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/55318721/07WK.pdf Parts

Try that.

[lekmedm]

Hey, any news on solving that DTC? My XK has been showing the service 4wd message for years. I just pulled the code tonight. It'd be nice to finally have this fixed.

[hoaxci5]

Unfortunately, no answer yet.. back when I posted it only happen that once or twice, while in the snow.. now it's popping up again in 100+ degree weather so it seems it might somehow we temp related.. I clear it and its fine for awhile, then comes back. I'm on a cross country move, so when I make it to my new home in DE I'll stop by a dealership and see what they can come up with while I have some other maintenance done..

[BonesWK]

I have also had the "service 4x4" ever since I bought it.. they did the TSB for it, that helped for about 6 months. Last time I had the dealer look at it, it was because of the front diff solenoid (im thinking similar to what you guys have going on)

Honestly I have wheeled and driven fine with the message coming off and on for 5 years. It would be nice to fix, but I think they have to drop the front diff to get to the circuit.

I know I know, im not the smartest guy to not have this fixed...

[Matt]

Hey Jacob.... Remember how 2 or 3 times I made a QTII reference when talking to you because I kept forgetting you have QDII? Well, watching those RC videos it dawned on me, it was clear that neither of your diffs were locking up (hence i kept thinking you had QTII). I remember joking around at the Econo saying "we'll find out tomorrow if they're working".

Just thought i'd give ya the FYI. Random thought passing through my brain :p

[07JeepXK]

X2

I was watching him on the blue/black trail as I was behind him and his diffs definitely weren't locking. In fact Kim asked a few times why it seemed like his Jeep was having trouble compared to mine if he had the Hemi with the better 4wd system.

[hoaxci5]

Well it's sitting at the dealership waiting for them to install the final control module or whatever it was we were talking about.. I guess that might explain why I didn't make it up either of those climbs at the comp course though since I thought it would be pretty easy.

[Matt]

Well it's sitting at the dealership waiting for them to install the final control module or whatever it was we were talking about.. I guess that might explain why I didn't make it up either of those climbs at the comp course though since I thought it would be pretty easy.

lol yeah, that was one of the times I made the QTII reference and thought "i" was crazy when you reminded me you had QDII.... I knew both those front tires weren't spinning!

[hoaxci5]

If you don't mind, post up the video, I'd be interested to see the proof :p

[Matt]

If you don't mind, post up the video, I'd be interested to see the proof :p

ha im way ahead of ya. Trying to figure out how to convert the format so i can upload it to youtube

[Matt]

yaaaaayyyy.... IM not crazy!!!!


http://youtu.be/gL9Ph8zn6gY

[hoaxci5]

I think the video is private or something, I can't see anything....

[Matt]

Can anyone else see it?

[hoaxci5]

Its just my super awesomely crappy internet.. I see it now, but couldn't earlier..

I guess you aren't crazy, and I don't feel as bad about not making up those climbs in the comp course.

[hoaxci5]

Update.. It's still at the dealership, they put in the new final drive module and I guess it threw a bunch more codes so they are still trying to track down the issue.. Today is the start of week 3..

[Matt]

Not cool......

[Core XK]

wow thats crazy.....I hope they find the issue and resolve it asap.

And no more QTII references! it is hurting my feelings...

[hoaxci5]

I guess this has turned into a much bigger issue.. Dealership still hasn't figured out what else is wrong. Codes galore I guess.. they have a call into a Jeep engineer to hopefully help them out.

2 weeks down..

[07JeepXK]

Almost makes me glad I dont have QD II. Hope they figure it out

[Matt]

Thats crazy man. Interested in what they find out. Sounds like the FCM isn't playing nice

[Sal-XK]

Almost makes me glad I dont have QD II. Hope they figure it out

That was my point earlier great system but very complicated and expensive to fix.

[Matt]

That was my point earlier great system but very complicated and expensive to fix.

Sounds like the issue he's having goes beyond QDII. If it's a FCM communication issue, it can happen to QTII too. Only difference between is the 2 solenoids in the axle; not really that complicated when it comes to power-electronics.

[Sal-XK]

Sounds like the issue he's having goes beyond QDII. If it's a FCM communication issue, it can happen to QTII too. Only difference between is the 2 solenoids in the axle; not really that complicated when it comes to power-electronics.

And the clutch packs too right?

[Matt]

And the clutch packs too right?

How often are guys tearing apart diffs to rebuild carriers?

Might want to swap in a QTI tcase if you're worried about clutch packs lol

[Matt]

In any case, the issue Jacob is having isn't 'normal' for any of our jeeps. So just saying that using this thread as an example of why "QDII is complicated and expensive to fix" is a bit of a stretch. :p

[Sal-XK]

How often are guys tearing apart diffs to rebuild carriers?

Might want to swap in a QTI tcase if you're worried about clutch packs lol

There's a pump in there too I think LOL not often but not many beat on it eithere but I do agree it's the best non locker system you can have hands down and as far as I know pretty dependable as well. But when it does go wrong you have to admit it can be pricey and complicated :)

[Matt]

lol you're wheeling an XK dude... pricey & complicated is part of the beast. The addition of the ELSD's adds a bit, sure... but compared to the already "complicated and pricey QT-II XK", its indifferent especially considering the probability of failure. If the ELD's were blowing up every other trip, then yeah. But you're just as likely to blow apart your spider gears as a QDII owner is to burn up the clutch packs.

The carriers aren't a weak point so its really a non-issue IMO. And regardless, so the playing field will be even when you put an aftermarket selectable locker in the QT-II diff.... so whats the difference then https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

[Sal-XK]

lol you're wheeling an XK dude... pricey & complicated is part of the beast. The addition of the ELSD's adds a bit, sure... but compared to the already "complicated and pricey QT-II XK", its indifferent especially considering the probability of failure. If the ELD's were blowing up every other trip, then yeah. But you're just as likely to blow apart your spider gears as a QDII owner is to burn up the clutch packs.

The carriers aren't a weak point so its really a non-issue IMO. And regardless, so the playing field will be even when you put an aftermarket selectable locker in the QT-II diff.... so whats the difference then https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

Not much difference I'm just cranky and feel like arguing LOL I spent 9hrs today at the VA just to get on prescription filled. You can't make crap like this up bro :(

[Matt]

I kinda figured you were in a ball-busting mode lol

[hoaxci5]

Yea at this point I doubt it has anything to do QD2, and unlikely that c1417 was the even remotely close to the actual issue. I guess time will tell though..

[Matt]

Watch it be something stupid like a corroded ground wire on the engine block or something that's just enough to reak havoc on the FCM...

[hoaxci5]

They heard back from the STAR engineer and I guess they are going to start doing some CAN-BUS tracing. This I guess requires a lot of interior removal, so they aren't going to start it until Tue, since I need my Jeep to go pickup my XJ from Matts and I have contractors coming to what should be our new house on Tue morning for quotes... so the dealership is working with me constantly picking up and dropping off the XK to keep in a vehicle when I need one. I already burned through my 5 days of rental included in my extended warranty, and the dealership doesn't have any loaners...

[06JeepXKHEMI]

That sucks man, hopefully they get a handle on it Id be pissed that they cant diagnose whats going on and being under extended warranty they should do something for you on a ride. My dad is a fixed-ops service manager happens to be next to me now and says you should be taken care of regardless of having loaners.. Still shocking they cant determine whats causing the issue

[Matt]

Sounds like you bought that XJ just in time...

[hoaxci5]

It's a carmax extended warranty not a jeep warranty.

[hoaxci5]

Only problem with the XJ is I can't register it yet since I'm not a resident.. We're "living" in Maryland, so until we close on the house (should be Sept 28) I can't even drive the XJ...

[06JeepXKHEMI]

Damn man sorry dude, Id reach out to CarMax see if they can do anything for you..

[Core XK]

Well look at the upside, atleast you can wheel it in matts backyard :)

[07JeepXK]

Only problem with the XJ is I can't register it yet since I'm not a resident.. We're "living" in Maryland, so until we close on the house (should be Sept 28) I can't even drive the XJ...

Maybe a certain someone can register it for you in his name until you get everything figured out. I know that takes a lot of trust but I know you and that someone are very trust worthy individuals!!

[Core XK]

I can vouch for that indovodual!

[Matt]

I can vouch for that indovodual!

dont speak too soon https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

:D

[07JeepXK]

dont speak too soon https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

:D

Haha omg I love it.

[06JeepXKHEMI]

dont speak too soon https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

:D

HAHAHA!!! It may be raining up here but my day is looking up!!

[Matt]

Its pouring here too.... gonna try to knock out Corey's skids before Jacob gets here in case its still raining. Only one car fits in the garage

[hoaxci5]

Fingers crossed, they say it will be ready Monday.. but because of all the headache in diagnostics the dealership will not attempt to collect payment from the carmax warranty, so I have to pay and then attempt to get reimbursed. Crappy situation for all involved.. they will only be charging me for 3 hours of labor and parts in return for not having to deal with them.. Once I get it back with full documentation of what they found I'll update again.

[Sal-XK]

Good luck man!

[07JeepXK]

I hope they actually fixed the problem. I hate the dealer!!!!

[hoaxci5]

https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

Well I have it back, so far so good.. but I'll hold my tongue until I've driven it awhile to make sure the problem is fixed..

Bad part.. $1080, hopefully once I write my letter I'll get most of that reimbursed from the warranty company.

[hoaxci5]

1583

Just seeing if this makes the image any larger.. I used facebook to host it, so we'll see..

[07JeepXK]

Glad you got it fixed!!!

[Matt]

Wow man I hope that warranty pays off!