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View Full Version : Hi-Lift & 4xG sliders?



Matt
12-28-2011, 06:09 PM
Another Christmas present came in today https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111228193305-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111228193322-1.jpg

Going to see how well it works lifting by the notches in the 4XG sliders tomorrow. Also need to make some mounts for my roof rack!!

Sal-XK
12-28-2011, 06:12 PM
That's pretty sweet bro!

Matt
12-29-2011, 11:12 AM
Well i've hit my first "bummer".

Was hoping to get home this afternoon and snap some pictures of the jack holding my flexed out rear tire off the ground... instead i almost ended up with body damage.

The jack itself is solid... the jacking points on my vehicle however, are not.

My first attempt I just threw the jack under there close to where the notch is in the sliders. Figured i'm on a level surface with a solid base... if being off 1/2" here matters than this will be useless offroad; unfortunately, that was the case. As soon as I started lifting the jack tilted inwards until the top bar hit my door. Luckily it was just a "soft" collision and no damage:

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111229124248-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111229124300-1.jpg

^ You can see in the pictures the main problem. The notches in the slides only catch the very tip of the lifting foot and doesn't provide support anywhere else. The moment (torque) created by this about the base of the jack results in rotation until its counteracted (by the door).

Against my better judgement i decided to give it another shot. I positioned the base further under the vehicle to reduce the effect of the moment created by the above conditions.....

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111229124546-1.jpg

... i was blinded by my desire for this to work. When you start lifting, either the vehicle has to slide toward the jack OR the jack slides/pivots toward the vehicle.

This time the jack hit the door with a bit more force :(. NO DENT (i didnt get high enough).. but left a little scratch (that you probably cant see if i dont point it out)..

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/20111229124446-1.jpg

^^FYI, what you dont see in this picture is that the base of the jack actually kicked outwards a few inches as well.

This isn't really a Hi-Lift review... the flaw is definitely with the lifting points on the sliders. The sliders need to latch on to more of the jacking foot and rest up against the vertical portion to provide support to reduce/counteract the moment created. Putting all of the force on the very tip of that foot just doesn't work [as i thought it was meant to be used]

Looking back at 4XG's website i think they meant "emergency" literally:

2 gusset-supported notches — one front and one rear — for more secure (emergency) vehicle lifting with a HiLift-type jack.
... I don't see using these points as lifting points unless you absolutely have to; and be prepared for body damage.

Needless to say:
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.pnghttps://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png

Holaday07 4.7
12-29-2011, 12:49 PM
I think Pjimjr or whatever had this happen to him too.

pjmjr508
12-29-2011, 01:08 PM
I think Pjimjr or whatever had this happen to him too.

So I am not crazy (Well ok in this matter lol) I have a large crease in my rear passenger door from it when I popped the bead while on the trail. I had thought I must have done it wrong. Didn't they test for this, since the notches are put in for this reason; unless I missed something.

Matt
12-29-2011, 01:40 PM
Yeah man... i remember you having this issue too but thought it was maybe the way you put it on. Nope, it's not your fault.

The only was I can think to resolve this is to make an adapter that would wedge between the sliders and the vertical portion of the jack; giving the jack something to "push" up against to resist pivoting.

I'm a bit disappointed here; this was one of the major selling points for me :(

HueyPilotVN
12-29-2011, 01:41 PM
I think that there is an attachment for the Hi Lift jack so that it can be used on bumpers. I used to use one on my TJ without the attachment. Mostly we used them on the trail for lifting and then pushing the Jeep off the jack to clear boulders or for clamping or short winching jobs.

LWM
12-29-2011, 01:44 PM
We had the same issue when we tried to lift Phunkydude's XK when he "broke" on Broken Arrow in AZ. The body line of the Commander requres you to set the jack further away which is not safely possible.

I would like to see someone with a Hi-Lift take a photo with Sal's Slider so I can see what the distance from the body is (I sold my hi-lift).

Matt
12-29-2011, 01:50 PM
Just from the pictures, I would put money on it that I can find a way to safely lift the vehicle with the SA sliders.

Jon, I actually have an idea for a hi-lift adapter for your sliders that would make the process fool-proof and as safe as it gets (it would completely eliminate the possibility of the jack slipping off the slider. )

Adondo
12-29-2011, 01:50 PM
Those Hi-Lifts are great, but they've caused collective damage in the millions to various rigs. :) The problem is they can kick out. If it's towards the rig, it can all but act like a can opener.

What you REALLY want is an X-Jack. http://www.bushranger.com.au/xjack.php Not only more stable, but it'll lift about as high. (30") And, they're great on soft stuff, where a Hi-Lift needs a large pad to keep from sinking in.

Matt
12-29-2011, 01:51 PM
I think that there is an attachment for the Hi Lift jack so that it can be used on bumpers.

For steel bumpers, yes. They wont work on stock XK bumpers.

LWM
12-29-2011, 02:35 PM
Jon, I actually have an idea for a hi-lift adapter for your sliders that would make the process fool-proof and as safe as it gets (it would completely eliminate the possibility of the jack slipping off the slider. )

I'm interested.

TrialByFire
12-29-2011, 02:56 PM
Yes. It is a problem. I kick the base in about 6" and throw a rag over the top of the I beam before starting to lift now.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/HiLiftDamage-1.jpg

Matt
12-29-2011, 03:50 PM
I'm interested.

I'll shoot you a PM later tonight.

Sal-XK
12-29-2011, 08:06 PM
I had this happen on an old car changing a tire when all the cars came with these types of jacks in them LOL. Sorry to hear that about the 4xG sliders that's a lot of money spent to have them not work as advertised :( The SA sliders stick out a lot further then the 4xG so if you had a strap or a chain you could wrap around the tubed part you could lift there I guess. I won't be getting a that type of jack though I'd rather put my floor jack in the back of the XK instead LOL

LWM
12-29-2011, 09:19 PM
I won't be getting a that type of jack though I'd rather put my floor jack in the back of the XK instead LOL

Or you can buy a Co2 bottle jack like I have :)

Omelet
12-29-2011, 10:48 PM
That's why I have things like this

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/12/230cb2be-1.jpg

That coupled with a rag and we are in buisness :D Hi-Lifts are dangerous tools, but in am emergency they are cheap insurance. I picked mine up years ago for $30 and I just snagged one for my dad yesterday for $20! I would love to have a BajaJack, but those thinks are pricey. It is hard for me to justify spending that much money when I have something that works when/if I ever need it.

On another note, they do make an adapter for the Hi-Lift to be used with a tube bumper or rockers like with the new Steel Armidilos rails.

Omelet
12-29-2011, 11:20 PM
For anyone interested:

http://www.sbefabrication.com/page2.php?view=productListPage&category=3

Adondo
12-30-2011, 12:21 AM
Having had many 4x4's and Hi-Lifts over the years, I can say the only way they're worth having is to have matching sockets on the rig. (And a modified jack stinger) That way, it's held from flipping. That's limiting though because you're stuck with wherever you fabricated a socket, and for me, an X-Jack or floor jack works the best. I also pack a floor jack under the cargo floor. (where the 3rd row seat was)

Another use is as a winch of sorts. But, you need the correct length of cable or strap for that to work. They'll also move rocks and logs if you get a chain attachment. So... bring one along, but just use something else to SAFELY lift your XK. :)

Matt
12-30-2011, 05:00 AM
I agree.... I've come to the same conclusion after years of offroading.

The difference here is that one of the selling points of the 4xG sliders was supposed to be hi-lift jacking points. I had assumed that these were designed/tested given the quality of 4xG products to date.

Being that the jack is now merely an emergency tool and/or off-road winching tool, ill just be throwing it in the back with the other tools. I was hoping it would replace/supplement my scissor jack in a pinch (and be much easier to access for a tire change on a roadtrip when I have the back full of kids stuff)... but that's not going to happen.

Matt
12-30-2011, 05:05 AM
...keep in mind that some of us still use our 3rd row seats and haven't converted that entire area into cargo space. So we all don't have the option of carrying around a few different jacks, especially with the limited cargo space available (that's speaking from a perspective of a guy who has to pack stuff for 2 kids.... strollers/toys/pack&play/etc.... space fills up quick back there)

Unlike my pickup truck.... I carried around a full sized 3-ton floor jack in there.

I am about due for a new shop jack. Maybe ill invest in one of the aluminum ones this time which'll make it easier to carry around and hold in place for off-road trips.

pjmjr508
12-30-2011, 05:41 AM
I also use my 3rd row, and have one car seat now, but in June there will be 2 car seats. So with the limited space I am forced to use what can be attached to the rack on top.

Matt
12-30-2011, 06:10 AM
Same here... added my "2nd car seat mod" least June. :)

The kids wont be coming with me to RC in January so ill be taking the car seats out for that trip.

cico7
12-30-2011, 07:51 AM
Car seats are not eligible as a "mod".

Same here... added my "2nd car seat mod" least June. :)

The kids wont be coming with me to RC in January so ill be taking the car seats out for that trip.

Matt
12-30-2011, 08:17 AM
Car seats are not eligible as a "mod".

I beg to differ.... I've securely fastened a 30 pack via the 5 point harness. :p


But back on topic.... I have two friends building up wranglers so I'm just going to sell the jack to one of them since as of now, I basically have an annoyingly bulky and expensive comealong. And since I already have a 5-ton comealong (that I confiscated from pops because he never uses it lol) the hi-lift is practically useless to me now.... so I'm going to look at other options (short of selling my sliders to get the SA version).

LWM
12-30-2011, 08:19 AM
so I'm going to look at other options (short of selling my sliders to get the SA version).

Oh, come on...... :)

Matt
12-30-2011, 08:33 AM
Oh, come on...... :)

Hey now.... no kicking while I'm down!

Omelet
12-30-2011, 11:56 AM
I guess I have just been taught from the beginning that a Hi-Lift is an unessential tool to have, but is not always your primary mode of lifting. It will work great on some rigs and is not even usable on others, but is dangerous no matter what. It is a jack (pun intended :D ) of all trades and a master of none! For tire changes I still carry my OEM jack along with a block of wood.

Matt
12-30-2011, 12:16 PM
For sure... hi-lifts can be very dangerous if not used properly. Extra precautions are also necessary, hell you even have to watch where you stand while using it because the handle can knock you out.

I'm a big advocate of "use your tools before you need them". Anyone who buys a hi-lift and doesn't play with it on level ground first is really asking for trouble.

..... and like I said in my first post, that second attempt was definitely against my better judgement. I was questioning myself though because I thought that this must have been tested successfully before. I thought wrong...

UNLESS............. sal, where's that thread on removing the doors????? :)

Omelet
12-30-2011, 12:48 PM
Ya I guess I have never seen anyone use one on an XK until now, only on WKs. Congrats on being the first :D

Sal-XK
12-30-2011, 12:51 PM
UNLESS............. sal, where's that thread on removing the doors????? :)

See another good reason for removing your doors :)

Seriously though to many products being sold to us are not tested properly or not tested at all. I can find no pics or videos of the 4xG sliders being used as lifting points at all. I guess the testing is up to people like us to do :( which sucks because we have to purchase the product and test them out so no one else gets ripped off talk about taking one for the team. We should start a thread of product tests or maybe a section dedicated to testing and reviewing products. I can vouch for the SA sliders of course and the 4xG belly guard and front guard to some extent. I'd love to see someone slam there 4xG sliders down with the full weight of the XK.

valpacer
12-31-2011, 03:11 AM
I'd love to see someone slam there 4xG sliders down with the full weight of the XK.

Done that with the WH. Dropped around 4ft down rock face onto another boulder, contacted directly on the leading edge of the LHS slider. Guard and door bent up at bottom, pulled pinchweld across. We are modifying the angle bracket with some extra steel to tie it to the subframe to strengthen it up. They work fine, but not enough for what i do. The Sliders that CRDSTU sells down here have a tube outer similar to the SA ones as well. Mine are getting the outer tube treatment and we are also making some brush guards and tieing those to the Saguaro front bar to protect the guards.

I know with my 4xguard slider i can use my hilift on any of the spots and it gets within 1/2" of the door.

Dave

PS ive had to move to a 60" hilift now, with the notches on the Saguaro rear bar the 48" wouldn't get it off the ground!

Sal-XK
12-31-2011, 04:36 PM
4' is a long way down:eek: did your tires hit first? Have a video? :)

Matt
12-31-2011, 04:57 PM
Would like to see some pics of that.... needs a helluva lot of force to tear that pinch weld.

Should probably get a new thread started for the slider discussion... lol actually, sal, maybe change this thread title to "My 4XG Sliders are useless for Hi-lift jacking"

Sal-XK
12-31-2011, 05:04 PM
LOL that's funny but I changed it!

Matt
12-31-2011, 05:11 PM
Lol there no question mark needed in this title, they don't work unless you don't mind imminent body damage.

I'm taking Adondos advice and going with an xjack. .. and ill just keep on using my scissor jack on base I made (2 4x4s cut 8" long and screwed together).

A creased/dented/scratched door costs a lot more than the difference in price between a hi-lift and xjack. I'm looking forward to testing one out and reviewing it. :)

06blkhemi
12-31-2011, 05:28 PM
4' is a huge drop! I would bet sals bar would hold up about the same as the 4xg one on that kind of drop?!

valpacer
12-31-2011, 11:15 PM
Haha, no vid :(

It was a perfect drop, the tyre missed it by an inch. It was at cruiser park, there was a part of the canyon that was still apparently undrivable since the floods - well so said the fellas in the big landcruisers. We made it through, and where this happened i was up on a large single rock face (about a 30deg side slope with many little streams coming though it) with many boulders at the bottom, I had to drive high up on the slope to get around the rocks and didnt quite make it, slid down and hey presto!

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/20120101_155433_934-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/20120101_155453_640-1.jpg

You can see here where its pushed into the sill.

The guard popped back out, but the bottom of the door is bent. Once we unbolted the slider it went back to shape, then retensioned it all up. Its actually bent the slider about 5mm.

As I said before, I dont think in normal driving i could do this, but I dont drive normal :cool:

Dave

Matt
01-01-2012, 06:28 AM
Oh i see... so it was more of a lateral hit that pushed it inwards. All things considered, imagine what the damage would have been like without any protection!

06blkhemi
01-01-2012, 04:40 PM
I was thinking the same thing Matt!

EvilJager
01-01-2012, 06:18 PM
I never tried with the rails but did with the rear bumper. The truck slid to the right and had the hi lift jammed lol... that was on a rock driveway. Maybe ill get bored thia week and try the bumper and rails only in the garage this time haha. I just dont see gow its going to work on a trail. I just wouldnt trust it

Holaday07 4.7
01-02-2012, 04:26 PM
I'd love to see someone slam there 4xG sliders down with the full weight of the XK.

Did several times yesterday twice on rather large rocks and another on a tree with a running start.

Held up great.

Matt
01-07-2012, 10:44 AM
Guys... took two more pictures to show the reason these aren't designed for use with hi-lift:

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/20120107123159-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/20120107123209-1.jpg

Omelet
01-07-2012, 10:51 AM
Chris it sounds like you need one of these:

http://www.wabfab.org/Slider-Adapters/Wabbit-Foot/flypage.tpl.html

EvilJager
01-07-2012, 10:58 AM
Chris it sounds like you need one of these:

http://www.wabfab.org/Slider-Adapters/Wabbit-Foot/flypage.tpl.html
Yea i was goimg to get one but its one of those things i never got around to buying

Omelet
01-07-2012, 11:07 AM
I am planning on ordering their combo (the foot and the tube adapter). I am still looking around to see what other companies have made, but their prices are quite nice!

EvilJager
01-07-2012, 02:16 PM
All i can say is theres alot more room foe the wk guys. Heres a few pics i snapped. (I need more leverage! Thats one heavy b**** when its already up that high)
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/20120107_160730_239-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/20120107_160741_383-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/20120107_160751_480-1.jpg

But i can say this. I wouldnt feel comfortable doing that on the trail!

Matt
01-07-2012, 03:34 PM
But i can say this. I wouldnt feel comfortable doing that on the trail!

I agree!!

FYI it looks like it'll still work like a can opener when that base kicks out.

EvilJager
01-07-2012, 03:55 PM
Yea sure does