View Full Version : CV Weak Link
TrialByFire
02-25-2012, 08:17 PM
I broke my third drivers-side CV today (well actually, this time it was my wife).
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/02/Brokeagain-1.jpg
First, so that no one thinks this is going to happen during moderate off-roading, a couple of photos of where it happened.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/02/BadHairDay-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/02/Beforethebreak-1.jpg
Here are some thoughts and recommendations.
1. All three times I was able to get a trail-fix and drive out back to civilization. (We drove home 80 miles in 4-LO today.)
2. Use a pry bar and put the CV back in place as well as possible, then block, shim, or whatever you can think of to keep the shaft centered between the strut legs. Avoid even moderate flexing and things should stay in place for the drive out.
3. Anything steep and you will be hosed as all torque will go to the front. Try backing up the hills.
4. With 33's and a SuperLift, you will need to take things very slow to avoid breaking! Avoid getting the front wheels in a bind and trying to climb out. Back up and re-approach. Under no circumstances get the front wheels spinning. Once your front wheels are up on top, you can bump it a little to get the rear over and you should be ok.
5. We need chrome-moly CVs!!! Are you hearing this JBA? Armadillo? Even a hardened housing would be of help as all three times I broke, it was the housing that split--not the shaft.
6. Carry spares (on the QDII, the left and right are different). It will not be a trail fix, but at least you can have a local shop swap the new one in in an hour or less.
wow man i've never seen someone break CV's as much as you.... what brand have you been replacing them with?
TrialByFire
02-25-2012, 08:43 PM
wow man i've never seen someone break CV's as much as you.... what brand have you been replacing them with?
I'm replacing them with the NAPA reman brand.
They are really weak! It's not like I'm just hammering...I am actually taking things pretty easy. My wife did get a little anxious today when it popped, but nothing that should have done the damage it did.
Omelet
02-25-2012, 09:44 PM
Wow! How much have the NAPA ones been costing you? Do you happen to have a PN for both sides?
Sal-XK
02-25-2012, 10:50 PM
I think the QD2 XK's are having this issue more then anything because the amount of torque you guys can get to one wheel maybe. But the good news is I think JBA is going to make there super CV's and steel diff for the XK\WK after all. Chris will no for sure I think he's hinting at getting them. :D But this is why a tread lightly with the front especially careful not to make them spin to much. But that looked like an awesome trail man!
Omelet
02-25-2012, 11:05 PM
The bad news is it sounds like the steel diff won't work with the QD2 ELSD. I have yet to hear if the new shafts will work with the OEM diff or only the steel diff.
Sal-XK
02-25-2012, 11:30 PM
The bad news is it sounds like the steel diff won't work with the QD2 ELSD. I have yet to hear if the new shafts will work with the OEM diff or only the steel diff.
If he makes the CV's only compatible with the steel diff that would suck and he would loose money I would think.
Omelet
02-25-2012, 11:41 PM
My thoughts exactly! I really hope they are compatible with the OEM diff and that it doesn't cost too much.
Has anyone tried the SRT chromoly shafts? Or know if they will even work?
TrialByFire
02-26-2012, 12:14 AM
Wow! How much have the NAPA ones been costing you? Do you happen to have a PN for both sides?
The driver side is: NMD 958415
The passenger side is: NMD 958414
They run about $62 each with a core return ($140 w/o)
The NAPA ones listed as "New" are not available.
TrialByFire
02-26-2012, 12:23 AM
But that looked like an awesome trail man!
It is a great trail about 75 miles south of Albuquerque! This was my third time on it (the first two w/o breaking) so I let the wife give it a go.
The remanufactured shafts may be the problem, but I don't remember the first OEM shaft I broke looking any different.
Omelet
02-26-2012, 12:38 AM
Thanks for the info! So are these the best quality aftermarket shaft we have available?
Can new ones be bought from the dealer? Might be worth giving that route a shot... remanufactured shafts may be hit or miss for the quality control on the vendor who make the original casings. An OEM part in a case like this may have more controlled specs (material, heat treat, tolerance, etc).
criket
02-26-2012, 06:43 AM
I'm waiting for someone to try the SRT CV's and see what happens there.
If I was you dude, I'd take a piece of that casting that broke, call the manufacture (or NAPA to get the number) and call customer service. Send them that piece of casting that broke. Inform them about the weak housing. They should look into the problem and try to resolve it. Sometimes they may even send you a free CV or something.
At least thats what I do sometimes when we have quality issues where I work.
^^that's a good idea. Would also check the rest of the casting to see if there are any part numbers or contract numbers from the vendor. Could very well be a lower grade cast since they doubt we'd be using them offroad like this (most CVs that i've replaced at the shop were due to the boots wearing, you'll never break a cast like that on road)
Sal-XK
02-26-2012, 01:28 PM
Not sure how much it would be but if you break it they'll buy it
https://www.rcvperformance.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=53&osCsid=5f77977e02cc6f910d9f59eb95818542
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criket
02-26-2012, 03:00 PM
^^that's a good idea. Would also check the rest of the casting to see if there are any part numbers or contract numbers from the vendor. Could very well be a lower grade cast since they doubt we'd be using them offroad like this (most CVs that i've replaced at the shop were due to the boots wearing, you'll never break a cast like that on road)
Yea the main reason for informing the manufacture is to inform them of the problem, not to bitch at them. Sorry if I came off like that. They may have had a bad production run that day, materials not mixed well, heat no hot enough, or something else.
At my work, when a customer calls with a complaint, most of the time we give them a credit. I have sometimes sent them a free 40 lb sample of our product to make up for the issue. I'd rather lose $200 of product on a free sample than to lose a customer that buys 2-3 truck loads a week. But that's my point of view.
Yea the main reason for informing the manufacture is to inform them of the problem, not to bitch at them. Sorry if I came off like that.
I never thought you were impying to "bitch at them".... that never gets you anywhere.
Having the contract/vendor/etc numbers off the cast would help them track down where the housings were originally made. That's the first step in finding out the root cause.
TrialByFire
02-26-2012, 06:03 PM
Custom shafts are worth checking out but my main concern is whether the casting is designed to be the weak link in the front drive. Changing the passenger side axle out was a six-hour job, so a CV swap is far preferable. Unless we have access to the Jeep designers, the only way to find out is by experience. Any suggestions?
One of my buddies on the run thought that the casting looked 'pretty coarse-grained' for such a critical part. I think I will pursue a conversation with the folks at NAPA tomorrow just to see what they suggest. There are no exposed vendor part numbers on my spare shaft that I could see. I wish now that I had saved the pieces from the original OEM part to compare.
Sal-XK
02-26-2012, 06:57 PM
I guess to try it you have to be willing to keep upgrading parts as they break. Or it will workout nothing else breaks. Lots of risk for the first person to give that a try. But custom drive shafts aren't that much considering I guess. Or by the time your done you have a bullet proof drivetrain and a empty bank account. LOL
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It's a common conversation across every 4x4 (IFS) community i've been on that we'd rather have the CV's break than the gear case or carrier grenade.
It seems as though these are breaking way too easily IMO.
TrialByFire
02-27-2012, 09:00 AM
I decided this morning that I'm going to give the OEM part a try before I go to a custom shaft. The first CV I broke (which I assumed was an OEM shaft) was in conjunction with a broken tie rod. I'm not positive but I think the tie rod went first, then the wheel cocked off to the side and snapped the CV collar. That would be an understandable failure condition, whereas the last two failures (NAPA parts) were 'normal' abuse failures.
pjmjr508
02-27-2012, 09:01 AM
I posed the same question when I split my pass side half shaft on the inner CV. From what everyone said that it is better for it to break there then the TC or equal cost item.
TrialByFire
02-27-2012, 10:23 AM
Scratch the idea on an OEM half shaft. The dealer wants $437. Yes, you read that right!
Ouch!!!
Did you try one of the mopar online sites? Like mopar-wholesale.com. (there's a few parts sites online that I've used and I think sal has them on his links page... )
criket
02-27-2012, 10:46 AM
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/02/tommy_boy2-1.jpg
pjmjr508
02-27-2012, 12:24 PM
Scratch the idea on an OEM half shaft. The dealer wants $437. Yes, you read that right!
I remember when I was searching for OEM & it was coming in about 250 per & that was plus a Core. that's why I went with Napa one as well
TrialByFire
02-27-2012, 01:23 PM
Ouch!!!
Did you try one of the mopar online sites? Like mopar-wholesale.com. (there's a few parts sites online that I've used and I think sal has them on his links page... )
Good tip Matt. It's $330 at mopar-wholesale.com with $50 back for the core (.i.e. $280 plus shipping). That's a lot cheaper but still too much for me. It's a shame they don't just sell the shaft/collar instead of the entire assembly.
Omelet
02-27-2012, 01:42 PM
Do you have the part number for the OEM shafts?
TrialByFire
02-27-2012, 04:47 PM
Do you have the part number for the OEM shafts?
Drivers-side with ELSD is P/N 52104701AB
Drivers-side w/o ELSD is P/N 52104591AB
Passenger-side is P/N 52104590AA
Omelet
03-11-2012, 12:27 PM
Thanks for the PNs! Have you tried eBay or craigslist? I just got this one for $65! It has a little surface rust but other than that it is in great shape.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/03/3e9b8f77-1.jpg
The_War_Wagon
03-11-2012, 07:33 PM
Here's a funkadelic thought...
Anyone ever tried to install a Dodge truck manual transmission into their Commander? :eek:
The reason I ask is, I've only 4-Lo'd it ONCE in snow since buying mine in October - during a heavy squall when I happened to be 'hill climbing' here in Pittsburgh. This being my FIRST 4x4 with an automatic transmission, I noticed how the transmission/transfer case liked to bind up, sitting in traffic, and I had to let off the brake a bit, to allow the drivetrain to 'unbind.' I NEVER felt that binding sensation in the geartrain in my old '79 Bronco with the Borg Warner T-18 tranny and NP205 transfer case.
Or is something completely unrelated, putting stress on your CV joint?
TrialByFire
03-11-2012, 08:43 PM
Here's a funkadelic thought...
Anyone ever tried to install a Dodge truck manual transmission into their Commander? :eek:
The reason I ask is, I've only 4-Lo'd it ONCE in snow since buying mine in October - during a heavy squall when I happened to be 'hill climbing' here in Pittsburgh. This being my FIRST 4x4 with an automatic transmission, I noticed how the transmission/transfer case liked to bind up, sitting in traffic, and I had to let off the brake a bit, to allow the drivetrain to 'unbind.' I NEVER felt that binding sensation in the geartrain in my old '79 Bronco with the Borg Warner T-18 tranny and NP205 transfer case.
Or is something completely unrelated, putting stress on your CV joint?
That's an idea but I think mounting a clutch pedal and master cylinder could be problematic.
I don't have a clue what the computer is doing sometimes during power 'surges' while climbing. I would assume most torque would be directed to the rear wheels so it's puzzling why the front driver's CV snaps so easily.
FYI: I broke my fourth (YES 4th) CV yesterday! I'm in Moab and was doing Flat Iron Mesa in the reverse direction and climbing up Easter Egg Hill when it went. I was up against a rock on the drivers side but wasn't going hard at all. This time the collar was intact and something inside went. We winched the rest of the way up, drove to a flat spot and swapped it out in 45 minutes while the rest of the group ate lunch. (A 3 ft adjustable pry bar is a necessity to pop the shaft!) Finished the trail with no other incidents.
We did the 'Trifecta' (Poison Spider/Golden Spike/Gold Bar Rim) today with no spare half shaft and a bent tie rod and were pretty nervous but, thankfully, got through OK (didn't drag the new steel bumper on Golden Crack!). Our reasoning was that we could 'adapt or rob' parts from the passenger side spare ;-) if we broke.
At any rate, I have the guys at the NAPA in Rio Rancho checking on a 'quality' issue. They are telling me that the 'new' CV that NAPA lists will be available shortly but I would be happy to 'test' any aftermarket CV one of our sponsors makes available...hint, hint!
Omelet
03-11-2012, 09:32 PM
So are you still rocking the OEM passenger shaft? We need to see some pics from your trip!!!
Holaday07 4.7
03-12-2012, 06:04 AM
Pics
Snapping them like twigs.... I sure hope you get to the bottom of this before I need a new CV!
TrialByFire
03-12-2012, 10:19 PM
Pics and video are coming. Patience, my friends...
I'm too busy wheelin' to upload. Sadly, I leave for home tomorrow--hopefully, after Moab Rim!
Omelet
03-23-2012, 09:07 PM
You know, since you are so familiar with the process of replacing a shaft, you should make a write up for everyone! Whet do you say? :D
Sal-XK
03-23-2012, 09:28 PM
You know, since you are so familiar with the process of replacing a shaft, you should make a write up for everyone! Whet do you say? :D
Awesome idea :)
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Soooooo.... i might need a new CV shaft (or two)
What ever came of this? Should I steer clear of NAPA and try another brand? Rockauto has a few different brands for CV's....
Since mine arent completely toast yet (trying to track down a popping noise and think it might be one of the joints going), figured I'd replace them with some aftermarket CV's and keep my OEM ones as spares for the trail.
pjmjr508
01-06-2013, 11:43 AM
I am still using the replacement I got from napa. No complaints.
07JeepXK
01-06-2013, 08:38 PM
My napa replacement drivers side cv is stuck in the front diff. Garbage c-clip BS that holds it in is messed up. Still have my oem on passenger side. 126,000 miles later
valpacer
01-06-2013, 09:56 PM
I have found all of the aftermarket ones inferior to the factory except for the RCV's. The ones i havent tried are the Crown ones. But im not kind to them either :D
06JeepXKHEMI
01-07-2013, 12:48 PM
Matt let me know which way you're going, passenger side CV is leaking
Matt let me know which way you're going, passenger side CV is leaking
Honestly i'm leaning towards OEM.
However, my popping noise miraculously quieted down today. Makes me wonder if it was the diff and just took another day of driving for the fresh friction modifier to work itself in.... Will see what happens over the next few weeks.
06JeepXKHEMI
01-09-2013, 08:43 AM
what about a reman unit?
With a reman unit theres no way to know who made the cv case.... it could be an oem case or a cheaper aftermarket case (possibly weaker material and/or less quality control). Case strength is particularly concerning for qdii where A LOT of torque is transferred.... if I had qtii I might lean towards a cheaper $60-$100 CV. But for $200 more id rather not be worried about grenading a weak aftermarket cv case on a trail.
06JeepXKHEMI
01-09-2013, 09:22 AM
wholsalemopar has them for 274+ship, you find them cheaper anywhere else?
Thats pretty much the best price ive found too.
06JeepXKHEMI
01-09-2013, 09:41 AM
Damn! Also I have to address that tranny oil line, any idea on the cost for that thing?!?!
Edit: Not the part but for repair, thinking something I cant tackle myself..
Shop labor time for the trans lines on the 5.7L is 3.5 hrs. So labor + parts + material id say about $500....... id pay it lol
06JeepXKHEMI
01-09-2013, 10:04 AM
Forget that!! Theres a fix similar to yours they cut off the swage and put clamps on..
johnr
01-09-2013, 10:31 AM
as a proud new owner of an 06 un modified XK with the 4.7 and a QTII and a plan on a 2" lift and larger tires and some moderate off road travel how much of a concern are these CV joints? is this an item i should keep in my parts pile or wait until the start to go. the truck has 81000 mile on it now. it will see off road no more than 3 or 4 times a year.
if you can find a shop to do it..... cutting the crimps off like I did is still a 3+ hr job. Better off doing it yourself
06JeepXKHEMI
01-09-2013, 10:38 AM
Yea thats what Im talking about, cutting the crimps off and putting clamps on with new hose.. After researching it seems most people did it this way, some replaced with new line and took 3-4 hours to snake in there.. My point is this, why replace with line thats eventually going to do same thing?!? Ill be doing the clamps..
as a proud new owner of an 06 un modified XK with the 4.7 and a QTII and a plan on a 2" lift and larger tires and some moderate off road travel how much of a concern are these CV joints? is this an item i should keep in my parts pile or wait until the start to go. the truck has 81000 mile on it now. it will see off road no more than 3 or 4 times a year.
Not something id worry about. Except for an extreme offroad condition you'll know that a cv is going bad long before it fails.
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