Wheeling and Traction Control

[BonesWK]

I have never really thought about this, but what effect does this have when wheeling? I never have messed with it when off road, just kept it ON.

What is the best practice? Is it dependent on terrain? School me

Wheeling with TCS ON, or with TCS OFF?

[Matt]

Can't really think about a good reason to keep it on. Turning it completely off kills the part that cuts power to the engine; that's good for on-road driving because it'll prevent the vehicle from spinning out of control.... but for offroading, whether its mud, rocks, climbing, etc, you don't want the TCS killing engine power.

[07JeepXK]

Whenever I'm off roading (or in 4-low) I press and hold down the traction control button for 10 seconds until I here the chime. The dash will display ESP OFF if I recall correctly. This ONLY partially disables the traction control and is the best option for off road driving. With it partially disabled you dont have to worry about the engine bogging down and if you lose traction due to one tire being off of the ground the vehicle will still be able to have forward movement. The only way to completely disable traction control is to pull the fuse under the hood or rig up a togggle switch like I have. The only problem with totally disabling the traction control is QT II has open front/rear differentials. So once one tire comes off the ground your not going anywhere. Well unless you install a rear locker!

[lekmedm]

Whenever I'm off roading (or in 4-low) I press and hold down the traction control button for 10 seconds until I here the chime. The dash will display ESP OFF if I recall correctly. This ONLY partially disables the traction control and is the best option for off road driving. With it partially disabled you dont have to worry about the engine bogging down and if you lose traction due to one tire being off of the ground the vehicle will still be able to have forward movement. The only way to completely disable traction control is to pull the fuse under the hood or rig up a togggle switch like I have. The only problem with totally disabling the traction control is QT II has open front/rear differentials. So once one tire comes off the ground your not going anywhere. Well unless you install a rear locker!

I don't believe this to be true. You can partially disable the ESP system while driving by pressing the button. I believe you can completely shut down the system with the button, but you must be in Park to do so. I'll try to dig up a copy of the manual that explains this.



From page 141 of the 2007 owners manual:



Full Off (4WD Models Only) This mode is intended for off-highway or off-road use when ESP stability features could inhibit vehicle maneuverability due to trail conditions. This mode is entered by depressing and holding the “ESP Control Switch” for 5 seconds when the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running. After 5 seconds, the “ESP/TCS Indicator Light” will illuminate, and the _ESP OFF_ message will appear in the Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC). Refer to “Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC)” in Section 4 of this manual.

In this mode, ESP and TCS, except for the “limited slip” feature described in the TCS section, are turned off until the vehicle reaches a speed of 40 mph (64 km/h). At 40 mph (64 km/h) the system returns to “Partial Off” mode, described above. When the vehicle speed drops below 35 mph (56 km/h) the ESP system shuts off. ESP is off at low vehicle speeds so that it will not interfere with off-road driving but ESP function returns to provide the stability feature at speeds above 40 mph (64 km/h). The “ESP/ TCS Indicator Light” will always be illuminated when ESP is off. To turn ESP on again, momentarily depress the “ESP Control Switch”. This will restore the normal “ESP On” mode of operation.

NOTE: The “ESP OFF” message will display and the audible chime will sound when the gear selector is placed into the “P” (Park) position from any position other than “P” (Park), and then moved out of the “P” (Park) position. This will occur even if the message was previously cleared.

This pertains to working in 4-Hi. Page 142 describes the system in 4-Lo.


HTH

[pjmjr508]

I don't believe this to be true. You can partially disable the ESP system while driving by pressing the button. I believe you can completely shut down the system with the button, but you must be in Park to do so. I'll try to dig up a copy of the manual that explains this.



From page 141 of the 2007 owners manual:



This pertains to working in 4-Hi. Page 142 describes the system in 4-Lo.


HTH



Thanks for the great info

[Sal-XK]

For just rock crawling which is what I do the most just putting it in 4LO is the best option. This keeps the system on enough to grab that spinning wheel quickly and keep you moving. I've tried it with holding the button down and it didn't work to well for the rocks where you have tires off the ground all the time. For the beach I just leave it in HI and hit the button never had a problem in that configuration either. For mud and snow listen to Matt and 07jeepXK since that what they find them selves in way more then I do I avoid the stuff LOL. Also I remember reading the flow chart for the computer system and the computer is never truly off I just wish I could find that thing again.

[07JeepXK]

I don't believe this to be true. You can partially disable the ESP system while driving by pressing the button. I believe you can completely shut down the system with the button, but you must be in Park to do so. I'll try to dig up a copy of the manual that explains this.



From page 141 of the 2007 owners manual:Full Off (4WD Models Only) This mode is intended for off-highway or off-road use when ESP stability features could inhibit vehicle maneuverability due to trail conditions. This mode is entered by depressing and holding the “ESP Control Switch” for 5 seconds when the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running. After 5 seconds, the “ESP/TCS Indicator Light” will illuminate, and the _ESP OFF_ message will appear in the Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC). Refer to “Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC)” in Section 4 of this manual.

In this mode, ESP and TCS, except for the “limited slip” feature described in the TCS section, are turned off until the vehicle reaches a speed of 40 mph (64 km/h). At 40 mph (64 km/h) the system returns to “Partial Off” mode, described above. When the vehicle speed drops below 35 mph (56 km/h) the ESP system shuts off. ESP is off at low vehicle speeds so that it will not interfere with off-road driving but ESP function returns to provide the stability feature at speeds above 40 mph (64 km/h). The “ESP/ TCS Indicator Light” will always be illuminated when ESP is off. To turn ESP on again, momentarily depress the “ESP Control Switch”. This will restore the normal “ESP On” mode of operation.

NOTE: The “ESP OFF” message will display and the audible chime will sound when the gear selector is placed into the “P” (Park) position from any position other than “P” (Park), and then moved out of the “P” (Park) position. This will occur even if the message was previously cleared.



This pertains to working in 4-Hi. Page 142 describes the system in 4-Lo.


HTH

The only way to completely disable the traction control on our vehicles is to pull the fuse or rig a switch like I have. Trust me on this. Holding down the button until you hear the chime only completely disables the ESP. The traction control still kicks in and applies the brakes to any tire that loses traction. Every time my jeep comes off the pavement I do this method and the traction control still kicks in. My jeep see's some sort of hardcore off roading on a monthly basis.


For just rock crawling which is what I do the most just putting it in 4LO is the best option. This keeps the system on enough to grab that spinning wheel quickly and keep you moving. I've tried it with holding the button down and it didn't work to well for the rocks where you have tires off the ground all the time. For the beach I just leave it in HI and hit the button never had a problem in that configuration either. For mud and snow listen to Matt and 07jeepXK since that what they find them selves in way more then I do I avoid the stuff LOL. Also I remember reading the flow chart for the computer system and the computer is never truly off I just wish I could find that thing again.

When I go to Rausch Creek, I put the XK in 4 low and hold down the traction control button until it displays ESP OFF. This only partially disables the traction control system. When a tire comes off the ground, it still applies the brakes to that wheel which kind of fools the open differential, sending power to the opposite wheel allowing you to continue moving forward. I do that method everytime I go offroading (4-low w/esp off) and have no issues climping rocks at RC.

I pulled the traction control fuse once while at RC on a blue trail and wasnt able to go anywhere. Every time a tire would lose traction it would just keep spinning and have no forward momentum. Basically you only have two wheels out of four spinning since the traction control doesnt kick in by applying the brake.

[07JeepXK]

Keep in mind. I have a 2007 XK 4.7 liter with QT II and Im always in 4-low when off roading. I cant speak for those who have QT I or QD II or driving off road in 4 hi

[Sal-XK]

I've done that as well, It's just found the system didn't operate as quickly as I liked with the ESP button off. I played with it one time and just putting it in 4LO it grabbed the wheels faster but this would hurt you in the loose stuff where I wheel its a lot grip just off camber rock stuff. The delay in grabbing the wheels between the two settings was enough for me to settle on just putting it in 4LO. I felt that this setting with the trails I'm on it acted more like lockers then traction control the other way I felt I was waiting for the traction control to kick in.

[07JeepXK]

I hear what you are saying. The way I explained was just the way I prefer when my XK is in 4-low. It doesn't mean this is the only way it can be done or the best way. It all depends on the terrain you are on.

[criket]

With QT1, it don't matter whether it's on or off. It sucks anyway, lol.

I just use the skinny pedal more liberally :)

[Matt]

With the 3.7L, i would imagine you'd want to turn off anything that cuts power to the engine if you start sliding offroad.

Though what do i know, with my 5.7L and QDII i can just leave it in "Drive" and do just about anything ;)

[07JeepXK]

For about a grand we can make your WK QT II..... having 4-low would be a night and day difference!

[pjmjr508]

I might be off base but the info that was displayed might be for the QDII people where it will turn it off completely

[07JeepXK]

I might be off base but the info that was displayed might be for the QDII people where it will turn it off completely

Quite possible. I just know mine doesnt turn off completely unless i flip my toggle switch. Which is pretty much unless to me unless I were to get a rear locker. Only having two wheels with power in 4 low isnt fun.

[lekmedm]

The only way to completely disable the traction control on our vehicles is to pull the fuse or rig a switch like I have. Trust me on this. Holding down the button until you hear the chime only completely disables the ESP. The traction control still kicks in and applies the brakes to any tire that loses traction. Every time my jeep comes off the pavement I do this method and the traction control still kicks in. My jeep see's some sort of hardcore off roading on a monthly basis.



When I go to Rausch Creek, I put the XK in 4 low and hold down the traction control button until it displays ESP OFF. This only partially disables the traction control system. When a tire comes off the ground, it still applies the brakes to that wheel which kind of fools the open differential, sending power to the opposite wheel allowing you to continue moving forward. I do that method everytime I go offroading (4-low w/esp off) and have no issues climping rocks at RC.

I pulled the traction control fuse once while at RC on a blue trail and wasnt able to go anywhere. Every time a tire would lose traction it would just keep spinning and have no forward momentum. Basically you only have two wheels out of four spinning since the traction control doesnt kick in by applying the brake.

Well, ya gotta do what experience tells you that works. However, I don't understand why the "limited slip" function of the TCS system should be detrimental to crawling on the rocks. Folk instal LSDs and Detroits on purpose to get that functionality. When disabling the ESP system the limited slip part of the TCS is all that continues to work, and it seems to me that it would be to your advantage.

Just my 0.02

[Ross]

Would getting lockers in my 3.7L supplement well for not having 4 high/low?

[Sal-XK]

Would getting lockers in my 3.7L supplement well for not having 4 high/low?

Yes it would help but I would say the money spent on that would be better spent on swapping in nv245 TC.


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[07JeepXK]

Well, ya gotta do what experience tells you that works. However, I don't understand why the "limited slip" function of the TCS system should be detrimental to crawling on the rocks. Folk instal LSDs and Detroits on purpose to get that functionality. When disabling the ESP system the limited slip part of the TCS is all that continues to work, and it seems to me that it would be to your advantage.
Just my 0.02

I think were confusing eachother now...lol The TCS does continue to work when ESP is off and it does work to my advantage. Without the TCS you just have open front and rear differentials.

[lekmedm]

I think were confusing eachother now...lol The TCS does continue to work when ESP is off and it does work to my advantage. Without the TCS you just have open front and rear differentials.

Hehehe... Yeah, I'm confused by now as well, so let me take a step back and ask a question or two. The owners manual does not differentiate between the QTII (what you have) and the QDII (what I have), so I'll start with the assumption that ESP and TCS work the same for both.

Without using you toggle switch mod, do you get the "ESP OFF" message on the EVIC when you are in Park and hold down the ESP button for the 5 (or whatever) seconds like the manual says? If you follow this procedure, what is the effect when wheeling?

[BonesWK]

seems I have sparked a debate, interesting replys guys. Keep the info coming.

Im using QDII, the only problem I have is when climbing a hill the engine doesnt put out power at some points and it gets a little frustrating, while the TCS is on.

[Matt]

seems I have sparked a debate, interesting replys guys. Keep the info coming.

Im using QDII, the only problem I have is when climbing a hill the engine doesnt put out power at some points and it gets a little frustrating, while the TCS is on.

That's exactly why I turn it off.

Other than debating exactly what pressing the button does, I don't think there's any debate as to whether you should keep it on or not (well except maybe for Sal's case).

For QDII, turn it off so there's nothing bogging the engine down. The ELSDs take care of the rest.

[07JeepXK]

Hehehe... Yeah, I'm confused by now as well, so let me take a step back and ask a question or two. The owners manual does not differentiate between the QTII (what you have) and the QDII (what I have), so I'll start with the assumption that ESP and TCS work the same for both.

Without using you toggle switch mod, do you get the "ESP OFF" message on the EVIC when you are in Park and hold down the ESP button for the 5 (or whatever) seconds like the manual says? If you follow this procedure, what is the effect when wheeling?

Im not exactly sure if the TCS and ESP work the same with QT II and QD II. Without the toggle, it does display "ESP Off" on the EVIC when I press and hold down the TCS button for 5 seconds. The only effect by following this procedure that Im aware of is having the ESP totally disabled which i think the owners manual recommends when off roading due to the terrain you are driving on. Also, I dont get the engine bog down that happens when you keep the TCS on when you lose traction.

[Ross]

For about a grand we can make your WK QT II..... having 4-low would be a night and day difference!
What all would go into the process of changing from QT-I to QT-II?

[07JeepXK]

What all would go into the process of changing from QT-I to QT-II?

NV245J transfer case....4wd module for tcase that plugs in under 2nd row seating....and a shift bezel out of a XK/_WK with QTII...I could do it in 3 hours.

[Sal-XK]

Ya know people stress over the computer for doing this but really who cares right. Put it in low and let the dash light up like a x-mass tree. It's better then not having low range any day.


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[07JeepXK]

What do u mean? I have already done a QT I to QT II swap and had no lights come on after the install...well besides the 4 low light

[Sal-XK]

What do u mean? I have already done a QT I to QT II swap and had no lights come on after the install...well besides the 4 low light

Uh? when did you do this and how come I haven't read about and seen pictures or a thread something! You holding out me or am I missing something?

[07JeepXK]

Uh? when did you do this and how come I haven't read about and seen pictures or a thread something! You holding out me or am I missing something?

It wasn't done on my XK as its already QT II. I did the swap on a friends QT I WK back in November. A member on the other forum converted his XK to QT II and posted a thread listing the exact part numbers for all the parts needed to do the swap. He did all the leg work and was the guinea pig for the first successful install. All I did was find all the part for my buddy and install them. It took less than 4 hours. I think I can do it again in about three.

[Sal-XK]

It wasn't done on my XK as its already QT II. I did the swap on a friends QT I WK back in November. A member on the other forum converted his XK to QT II and posted a thread listing the exact part numbers for all the parts needed to do the swap. He did all the leg work and was the guinea pig for the first successful install. All I did was find all the part for my buddy and install them. It took less than 4 hours. I think I can do it again in about three.

I missed that one LOL in fact I think a lot of us may have! AJ you hearing this its your next mod bro! :D

[Matt]

No reprogramming needed??

[Ross]

Any links to the thread where it was actually done?

[07JeepXK]

Search jeepcommander.com and you will find the write up. I found a wrecked QT II 3.7. L and used it as a donor vehicle.

[TrialByFire]

Without using you toggle switch mod, do you get the "ESP OFF" message on the EVIC when you are in Park and hold down the ESP button for the 5 (or whatever) seconds like the manual says? If you follow this procedure, what is the effect when wheeling?

You will notice the effect most at higher speeds on dirt. With the ESP on, you will feel/hear the ABS locking up a wheel when it bumps off the ground. With it off, there is no unintentional braking. As far as I can tell, the TCS works the same with ESP on or off.

[Adondo]

What's always worked best for me is to just switch to low range when crawling. Works in the woods or on basalt rocks in the desert in this end of the country. It'll climb without disturbing the dirt for the most part. Unless you really want to fling dirt/rocks all over the place, just leave it ON. When the XK is teetering on two tires, (and that happens about every time I go wheeling) you want TCS and ESP running.

For sand, (And mud) then kill the ESP because you want POWER when you need it, and even bouncing over a few "whoop-dee-doos" at the bottom of most dunes will kill your throttle from the hard bouncing, so by the time to get to the beginning of the steep part of a dune, you're barely crawling and the gas pedal is "dead" when you need it the most. That and a dragging TCS brake while fighting gravity in the soft stuff is a bad plan. :) Holding the button down until "HAL 9000" gripes about it and lights up the dash, and you're ready for soft sand and/or dunes. Just don't roll it over on a hard turn, or snap an axle!

[EvilJager]

Since there are so many differences is the 4x4 systems per motor and various terrain id say try everything for your terrain and see which works best for you... you also have to figire in wheeling habbits

[AJeepZJ]

Had no idea discussions of QT1 to QTII were going on in here, lol. I thought it was just about traction control.

I've spent about 1.5 hrs picking through that thread, and I see useful info.. but it's spread ALL over the place. That thread is a casserole of chaos and gave me a headache. 07, Since it was successfully done. If you have a specific post, or maybe create a new posts, that lists all the essential components and requirements that would be huge. There are teams of QT1 drivers, and they would be at each others THROAT for this kind of information - especially if it's operational. Would be great to get a thread here that could trim off all the fat and simply address the whats needed, and the how-to.