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07JeepXK
07-09-2012, 06:00 AM
I'm not sure if anyone else caught this in Valpacer's recent wheeling thread from this past weekend. RCV - Off Road (a very well known company in the wheeling industry) now makes IFS CV Axles for the QT II WK's and XK's. Im not sure if anyone here on the forum has experience with RCV, but their products are absolutely amazing and can with stand any abuse that is thrown at them. Every day I see more and more members posting that they broke "yet another" cv axle while wheeling. I have yet to break one on my XK, but I know mine are getting weak and will need replacing soon so they dont break on the trail and leave me stranded. As you all know, once a cv breaks on our Jeep's, you need to be towed home unless you happen to have a spare cv axle with you. The vehicle will not move on its own in either forward or reverse with a snapped shaft.

I'm looking to order these as soon as I can afford them and totally redo my entire front end. I want to swap my JBA UCA's for RRO, change out my lower ball joints which are already garbage due to bad boots and install some new OME Struts with new coil isolators that I already have.

What are your thoughts on this? Would anyone with QT II ever consider spending that amount of money on CV Axles?

http://www.rcvperformance.com/

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/07/CVJIFSWK-1.jpg

Holaday07 4.7
07-09-2012, 07:14 AM
I am saving up to put a set in the TJ. at 2k for a set, might as well do a solid axle swap

thance
07-09-2012, 07:44 AM
$2000?????????

How much do stock replacements cost?

Also, I have an Diablo iTune1000 programmer that has an option to completely shut off traction control. This may allow you to get back home if an axle breaks though I have not tried it.

stites-xk
07-09-2012, 08:19 AM
I would really like a set but i do want a SFA. MMMM choices, choices. Trying to convince the wife about it is a different story.

07JeepXK
07-09-2012, 10:03 AM
I am saving up to put a set in the TJ. at 2k for a set, might as well do a solid axle swap

I guess it all depends on what your trying to do with your rig. No one has successfully done a solid axle swap on an XK yet that I know of. Also these cv's will make your front axles just as strong as axes found in a solid axle. You obviously still don't get the articulation of a solid axle though but if you used these with a 4 inch lift you would have plenty of articulation. On an IFS the weak link is the cv's. This will fix that problem. Not only that but bad cv angles cause premature failure when off roading. These won't break even at steep angles.


$2000?????????

How much do stock replacements cost?

Also, I have an Diablo iTune1000 programmer that has an option to completely shut off traction control. This may allow you to get back home if an axle breaks though I have not tried it.

OEM cv's from the dealer can run up to $300 for one. You can get cheap ones from your local auto parts store for like $60 but they are garbage if you plan on wheeling you rig. You will break one of those a lot faster then the oem ones.

Your tuner will not fix the broken cv issue. If its broke your jeep won't move until you fix it. Trust me. Take off you front drive shaft next time you got an extra half hour to spare and use your tuner to disable the traction control and you will see what I'm talking about.


I would really like a set but i do want a SFA. MMMM choices, choices. Trying to convince the wife about it is a different story.

I hear you! I would love a solid axle swap but you would need about $6000 cash to have a SFA installed.

pjmjr508
07-09-2012, 10:41 AM
To bad this does not work with the QDII system. I have broke a cv while while on the trail & it does suck. Now I am not sure about the QTII system but I do know from experience that if you break an cv on the QDII system that it will still move under its own power while in 4lo.

I want stronger cv's so hope they do make them for the QDII


I did send them a message to make sure that they do not make on that will work with the QDII system.

07JeepXK
07-09-2012, 01:32 PM
To bad this does not work with the QDII system. I have broke a cv while while on the trail & it does suck. Now I am not sure about the QTII system but I do know from experience that if you break an cv on the QDII system that it will still move under its own power while in 4lo.

I want stronger cv's so hope they do make them for the QDII


I did send them a message to make sure that they do not make on that will work with the QDII system.

Hmmm thats weird. I know for sure that the QT I guys are left stranded with a broken cv because I have witnessed it first hand. They dont have 4 low though. As far as the QT II guys, I know that if you drop the front drive shaft it does the same thing. Not allow the vehicle to move forward or backwards. Im not sure if I was in 4 low or 4 high when I experienced that at Rausch Creek. I havent broke a CV yet but based on what Ive heard from others with QT II your pretty much stranded. But even if it works in 4 low, you cant drive home from several hours away on dry pavement!!!

Holaday07 4.7
07-09-2012, 02:12 PM
IMHO this only moves the weak point to the next step in the drivetrain. I would rather carry an axel that I can quickly change rather than blow up my front diff or Tcase. I could be totally wrong, but an easy change weak link seens to be a good thing. I hope someone tries them though, especially if it is Trialbyfire or Valpacer

cmdr jim
07-09-2012, 03:27 PM
Hmmm thats weird. I know for sure that the QT I guys are left stranded with a broken cv because I have witnessed it first hand. They dont have 4 low though. As far as the QT II guys, I know that if you drop the front drive shaft it does the same thing. Not allow the vehicle to move forward or backwards. Im not sure if I was in 4 low or 4 high when I experienced that at Rausch Creek. I havent broke a CV yet but based on what Ive heard from others with QT II your pretty much stranded. But even if it works in 4 low, you cant drive home from several hours away on dry pavement!!!

Unless you have a QT I converted to a manually shifted QT II, locked in high :D now to get the low fully functioning......

Matt
07-09-2012, 07:11 PM
The QDII system will lock the front diff if you have a broken CV and will still move, no 4-low needed.

pjmjr508
07-09-2012, 09:15 PM
The QDII system will lock the front diff if you have a broken CV and will still move, no 4-low needed.

Matt when I broke an cv axel it would not go at all unless it is 4lo. When it was in 4 hi all you hear was the broken cv spining from the diff side but would not move. The only time it would move is when it was locked in 4 lo.

I was not saying to drive hours on pavment, but it got me back to camp & to where I could arange to get fixed.

pjmjr508
07-09-2012, 09:17 PM
this is the reply I got from then about QDII systems.

Hi Philip,

We do have a set for the stock Jeep Grand Cherokee 05-10 that has Electronic Limited Slip Differential or the "Quadra-Drive IIĀ®." The set on the website is for stock axle replacement. If you need modified lengths, we would need to know in order to make shafts to the proper length. We do have the product on the web, but the price is not online yet. The cost is $1,995 for the set. See the link for more details.

http://www.rcvperformance.com/product-details.aspx?sku=CVJIFS-WK-LSD


Regards,

Dean


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "RCV Performance" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 12:51 PM
To: "RCV Catalog Request" <[email protected]>
Subject: PHPMailer Test Subject via mail(), advanced

ATTENTION: Technical/Installation department

Name: Philip

City: Everett

State: WA

ZIP: 98208

Comment: Does your IFS CV axels work with a Jeep GC (05-10) that run the QDII system or does it only with the QT systems?

07JeepXK
07-10-2012, 05:05 AM
Nice. Looks like you QD II guys that break all the time can get these too!!!

Matt
07-10-2012, 05:13 AM
Pj, so your front diff wasn't locking after the CV broke? I recall trialbyfire driving out of moab with a broken CV in 4hi but could be mistaken.

Sal-XK
07-10-2012, 07:48 AM
Pj, so your front diff wasn't locking after the CV broke? I recall trialbyfire driving out of moab with a broken CV in 4hi but could be mistaken.

I believe he was in 4LO

Matt
07-10-2012, 10:39 AM
now that I think about it... you're right. The elsd would disengage once you started moving since the wheel speed would match what it should be. You'd need to be in 4 low to keep it locked.

Lol but its probably easier to turn in 4low with a busted CV axle. ;)

TrialByFire
07-10-2012, 12:09 PM
I believe he was in 4LO

I was in 4LO both times. Once I drove out about 15 miles. The other time, it was about 90 miles home @50 mph. The QDII has a "limp mode" in the computer that is really nice!

I don't see spending $1000 each for CVs that, as Holaday says, would just make the new weak link more costly and inaccessible. I can buy a lot of $60 spares for $2000. Also, I didn't notice any difference between the OEM CV and the NAPA replacement, but the castings may not be the same quality. I wouldn't know.

07JeepXK
07-10-2012, 04:48 PM
I was in 4LO both times. Once I drove out about 15 miles. The other time, it was about 90 miles home @50 mph. The QDII has a "limp mode" in the computer that is really nice!

I don't see spending $1000 each for CVs that, as Holaday says, would just make the new weak link more costly and inaccessible. I can buy a lot of $60 spares for $2000. Also, I didn't notice any difference between the OEM CV and the NAPA replacement, but the castings may not be the same quality. I wouldn't know.

I would rather have a cv that i would never have to worry about then breaking everytime i wheel the XK hard, lose out on wheeling time and figure out how im going to get my jeep home. The cv's on our vehicles are way too weak. That doesn't necessarily mean if you installed the RCV axles that you will now blow your front differential or transfer case because the cv is no longer the weak link.

I'm not sure what napa replacement you got but the one napa gave me is garbage. Just compare the boot between the napa and oem. My passenger side cv is the oem original with 109,325 miles on it and nothing wrong with it. The drivers side napa cv that has been on maybe 15,000 already is leaking from the boot and needs to be replaced. Keep in mind the only reason I have the napa cv is because I somehow managed to strip the threads on the original drivers cv when I swapped out the wheel bearing.

TrialByFire
07-10-2012, 07:43 PM
You make some good points but here is what I am worried about:

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/07/Brokenaxle-1.jpg

This happened along with a busted passenger CV. We wheel a 6500 lb vehicle with a front axle that is about 1" in diameter. Right now, the CV is the weak link. It costs $60 to replace and can be done on the trail (if we have a spare) in about 30 minutes. I am starting to know what tactics to avoid to prevent CV breakage, so there is a learning curve involved. If the OEM CVs are truly stronger, it is worth the extra $$. If the RCV CVs were $500 each, it would be at least tempting.

pjmjr508
07-10-2012, 07:56 PM
when I broke mine and it was only once it was the passenger side. I wheeled it really hard when I broke it along with having 7 people in seatbelts at the time didn't help either. I replaced it with a Napa one. I haven't really wheeled it hard since then yet so if I break it again I will prob get the RCV ones.

Matt
07-11-2012, 08:48 AM
I've seen people bust pinions, yokes and even blow apart their carriers..... I think ill pass on the $2000 CV axles. Eventually ill just cary a $60 spare for each side. I don't want to be the guinea-pig and find out what's next in line for our vehicles.

07JeepXK
07-11-2012, 11:13 AM
You make some good points but here is what I am worried about:

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/07/Brokenaxle-1.jpg

This happened along with a busted passenger CV. We wheel a 6500 lb vehicle with a front axle that is about 1" in diameter. Right now, the CV is the weak link.

Is this the passenger side cv you broke? Or is it the shaft that goes inside of the passenger side of the diff???

I'll be the guinea-pig as long as someone doesn't beat me to it. I guess it doesn't help any that you guys have the electronic limited slip up front that can go to full lock. That probably part of the problem along with the power of the Hemi.

Matt
07-11-2012, 02:27 PM
That's actually what worries me the most. I would love to find out that once the CVs are bullet proof we'd actually lose traction before another part of the drivetrain grenades..... which is possible with the limited tire sizes we can run, even with 4" lift. The price of the CVs is just too much for me to risk.. but I'm all for seeing what happens if someone else is up for it. :)

TrialByFire
07-11-2012, 04:21 PM
Is this the passenger side cv you broke? Or is it the shaft that goes inside of the passenger side of the diff???

That is the shaft that goes from the diff to the passenger CV. I blew both up at the same time (sawing plus a little bouncing--but nothing violent!). We managed to extract the broken shaft pieces from inside the front axle with a good magnet, without disassembling the front diff (whew!).

07JeepXK
07-11-2012, 07:35 PM
That is the shaft that goes from the diff to the passenger CV. I blew both up at the same time (sawing plus a little bouncing--but nothing violent!). We managed to extract the broken shaft pieces from inside the front axle with a good magnet, without disassembling the front diff (whew!).

I'll contact RCV tomorrow and have then make an inner shaft for our XKs that's stronger than the oem shaft.

valpacer
07-12-2012, 02:53 AM
Just found this thread!

My last cv did exactly that as well, 2nd trip out. Even my hobbled together factory shaft is lasting better, but still cant take the full lock max torque situation you can get offroad.

Yep, im pulling the trigger on a set of the QDII cv's, down here the factory shafts are over 2400 per set from the dealer, so cheaper than that. And even over 12 months at my current rate its worth the time on the track wheeling!

FJ cruisers (which are just landcruiser Prado's underneath) are running these type CV's on 34's and are not having issues with diffs or front shafts etc. And the WK front diff is stronger than the FJ by a mile, the extension shaft is 1 1/4" thick!. The front shaft CV's are very easy to change over too, so if that becomes the weak spot its even easier than doing a CV.

As soon as we work out the shipping they tell me it will be 2-3 weeks for delivery.

My SFA swap is at least 12 months away, rear LA conversion is hopefully starting in September, so these should get me through till then!

valpacer
07-12-2012, 02:55 AM
Here is how mine ended up!

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/07/DSC_0193-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/07/DSC_0188-1.jpg

Im over this!

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/07/DSCN6288-1.jpg

Matt
07-12-2012, 04:35 AM
Awesome. If the drivetrain holds up to your abuse that'll make me feel a lot better.

07JeepXK
07-12-2012, 05:20 AM
I'm curious. Who here owns a 4.7 L with QT II and has snapped an oem cv axle?? Please post up!!

stites-xk
07-12-2012, 06:29 AM
I'm curious. Who here owns a 4.7 L with QT II and has snapped an oem cv axle?? Please post up!!

I did passenger side on eagle rock last summer running a 2" lift and replaced it with a oem one. No problems since!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

valpacer
07-12-2012, 12:56 PM
Well the order is done and dusted, 2-3 weeks ill have them in the country.

Then we will see what these babies can do!

Sal-XK
07-12-2012, 03:03 PM
Well the order is done and dusted, 2-3 weeks ill have them in the country.

Then we will see what these babies can do!
Well if these expose a week spot in the axle like some are saying it will do I have no doubt you'll find it.

pjmjr508
07-12-2012, 05:17 PM
Well if these expose a week spot in the axle like some are saying it will do I have no doubt you'll find it.

I agree, so I am waiting to see what you think of them & how they hold up to your off road trips. If they get your seal approval then I'm all over it!!!!

Pixelcodex
07-12-2012, 06:03 PM
Funny, after reading this thread I recognized them. They are featured on the September issue of Diesel Power. 1373

TrialByFire
07-12-2012, 06:57 PM
I'm definately looking forward to a report! I don't worry so much about the T-case or the front locker as they are both clutches. It's the shafts and gears I suspect might go next.

07JeepXK
07-12-2012, 07:16 PM
I never got around to calling RCV today, but we should look into seeing if they can make a stronger inner axle shaft that goes inside the passenger side extension housing off the differential.

Sal-XK
07-12-2012, 10:16 PM
I never got around to calling RCV today, but we should look into seeing if they can make a stronger inner axle shaft that goes inside the passenger side extension housing off the differential.

Now your approaching SFA territory.

07JeepXK
07-13-2012, 04:52 AM
Now your approaching SFA territory.

Yes and no. I think a SFA on our Jeeps is a little more involved then people think. I was under the XK a few weeks ago looking to see what all would be needed to do it. A big thing I noticed is that the entire front sub frame would need to be taken out. Well that would be the right way to do it. The problem is the engine mounts are connected to the sub frame. Once that's taken out you would need to make some custom engine mounts. With having a unibody the there is not much to weld to in that area so figuring that our would take some work. Then another issue is finding a place to mount a steering box and of course a custom front drive shaft which you could get made anywhere. I'd love to see this done but not sure that I'd want to be the first to attempt it.

Matt
07-13-2012, 05:07 AM
And to make a SFA worth it up front, you'll want to do equivalent linkage in the rear to get articulation to match. Similar to what JBA started doing with their 6" lift on Chris's WK.

It's a project i would like to see someone tackle. It won't be me for at least 8-9 years though.

07JeepXK
07-13-2012, 05:53 AM
And to make a SFA worth it up front, you'll want to do equivalent linkage in the rear to get articulation to match. Similar to what JBA started doing with their 6" lift on Chris's WK.

It's a project i would like to see someone tackle. It won't be me for at least 8-9 years though.

That is something that you could always worry about several months after the SFA is complete but you are correct. The rear wouldnt be that hard to do, but your talking even more $$. I can see an entire build for a SFA costing around $10,000 by the time you figure the rear end into the equation.

Matt
07-13-2012, 06:19 AM
Not sure if you'd be able to do them separately, it would depend on the minimum lift achieved by the SFA. Due to cradle clearances you may be looking at a minimum of 8" lift required up front.... not sure you'll want to drive around with the front 4+ inches higher the rear for a few months. :)

07JeepXK
07-13-2012, 06:27 AM
Yea I never thought about that. And if your going to go as far as throwing a solid axle under the front end im sure you would want at least a 6-8 inch lift at minimum.

Matt
07-13-2012, 06:32 AM
Exactly. And you'll probably want matching front/rear axles so you don't need wheel adapters.... plus you'll want to swap out the rear just so you have an axle that has aftermarket gears available.

Would love to see a 5.7L commander with 10" SFA, 37s and 5.13 gears...... droooool

valpacer
07-13-2012, 10:42 AM
Yes and no. I think a SFA on our Jeeps is a little more involved then people think. I was under the XK a few weeks ago looking to see what all would be needed to do it. A big thing I noticed is that the entire front sub frame would need to be taken out. Well that would be the right way to do it. The problem is the engine mounts are connected to the sub frame. Once that's taken out you would need to make some custom engine mounts. With having a unibody the there is not much to weld to in that area so figuring that our would take some work. Then another issue is finding a place to mount a steering box and of course a custom front drive shaft which you could get made anywhere. I'd love to see this done but not sure that I'd want to be the first to attempt it.

Actually, the space is really good, and as for the subframe, making a replacement with the same mounting points and a mount for the steering box is probably going to be the way to go. Even with the standard subframe a prorock 44 fits under the front end nicely. We may have lifted one up there to take a look when all the bits were out for the SL conversion :cool:


And to make a SFA worth it up front, you'll want to do equivalent linkage in the rear to get articulation to match. Similar to what JBA started doing with their 6" lift on Chris's WK.

It's a project i would like to see someone tackle. It won't be me for at least 8-9 years though.

Mine will hopefully be done by the end of the year. The rear that is :-). Only instead of doing it the JBA style which is comprimised due to them leaving the gas tank in the factory location, we are relocating the gas tank to the spare wheel area (LRA tanks), which allows the use of a Claytons Triangulated long arm kit from a WG. Better articulation and ride all round.


Yea I never thought about that. And if your going to go as far as throwing a solid axle under the front end im sure you would want at least a 6-8 inch lift at minimum.

We are looking at a lower lift than I have now for the final height (LCOG style), which will be possible and have massive amounts of down travel (18" coilovers each corner).

valpacer
07-13-2012, 10:50 AM
Exactly. And you'll probably want matching front/rear axles so you don't need wheel adapters.... plus you'll want to swap out the rear just so you have an axle that has aftermarket gears available.

Would love to see a 5.7L commander with 10" SFA, 37s and 5.13 gears...... droooool

Rear gears are available, its the front thats the issue. Even with QDII the gears are still 8.25 corporate. And JK tone rings (which can be bought for just about any axle now) i have been told have the same tooth count as the WK ones so that solves the ESP/BAS and BAS issue. Although we will probably loose the rear axle for another pro 44 or perhaps a 60. Fitting a 60 under the front is another issue altogether.......

Matt
07-13-2012, 11:49 AM
You can get 4.88,5.13,etc gears for our rears?

Good call with relocating the gas tank. That would be a PITA to work around.

Looking forward to seeing yours built up. :)

07JeepXK
07-13-2012, 01:35 PM
Exactly. And you'll probably want matching front/rear axles so you don't need wheel adapters.... plus you'll want to swap out the rear just so you have an axle that has aftermarket gears available.

Would love to see a 5.7L commander with 10" SFA, 37s and 5.13 gears...... droooool

Any JK wrangler oem front axle or aftermarket will already have 5 on 5 bolt pattern.


You can get 4.88,5.13,etc gears for our rears?

Good call with relocating the gas tank. That would be a PITA to work around.

Looking forward to seeing yours built up. :)

You can get any gear you want for the rear as we speak.

valpacer
07-13-2012, 01:43 PM
To be honest Im actually looking at doing the 5 x 5.5 big bearing with the larger brakes, stopping a 6000lb wk on the std brakes in a hurry is no fun.

07JeepXK
07-18-2012, 07:17 PM
Oh I hear you. Sometimes it's hard to stop my XK and I
Only running 33's. Not sure how it's going to handle the next set of 34's!!

Gulf550
07-19-2012, 07:42 PM
Maybe I missed the post, but looking at the website listed it shows they have a set for the QD II.

07JeepXK
07-19-2012, 07:44 PM
Maybe I missed the post, but looking at the website listed it shows they have a set for the QD II.

Valpacer already ordered a pair for his QD II and they are being shipped to him as we speak.