Custom 4" lift possible?

[cmdr jim]

Question, if there was a way to lower the front differential, steering rack, & lower control arm pivot points all by 1-1/2" and also keep the upper control arms at an angle no greater than what is done on a two inch lift, would a 4" lift be possible without damaging the CV joints or steering inner tie rod joints?
Would you see any thing else that may come into play?
If not, than a RC double stacked 2" lift on the front and a RC 2" block on the rear with OME 2" coils on the back.
I think this is possible, but that would mean the front CV joints and Steering tie rods would be working as if it's a 2-1/2" lift.

[Matt]

No, you would need new spindles as well to maintain the uca/lca kinematic relationship and essentially have all of the parts as the 4" superlift, just with less height.

It'd be cheaper and better to just get the superlift.

[06JeepXKHEMI]

I wish it were that simple, slapping an RC lift on top of the OME

[Matt]

I'm running 1/4" spacer on top of OME. That's the limit if not over the limit IMO. Down travel of the suspension is almost non existent. And I'm wondering how long my steering rack is going to last. Literally biting my nails till the day I can do it right and get a suspension system on there!

[06JeepXKHEMI]

Yea I hear ya, I dont see the need for the superlift yet, especially at 2k when all said and done. The OME does everything I need it to, for now especially as a DD. When I get a new car 3-4 yrs I may go for the superlift if something else isnt developed by then

[Matt]

Lifting is addictive. Your OME is relatively new.... won't be long before you're installing the 1/4" spacers and soon after wanting bigger lol.

[Core XK]

Lifting is addictive. Your OME is relatively new.... won't be long before you're installing the 1/4" spacers and soon after wanting bigger lol.

I will definitely have a SL on my XK one day (Matt will tell you) :P

[06JeepXKHEMI]

Oh no doubt Id like to have a 6" lift but I know whats realistic and whats not right now..

[Core XK]

lol Yeah I know...its not realistic for me right now either (I wish I still lived with my mom) then It would be realistic!!!!

[Matt]

I Want to have the SL on mine before Adam does!

[cmdr jim]

No, you would need new spindles as well to maintain the uca/lca kinematic relationship and essentially have all of the parts as the 4" superlift, just with less height.

It'd be cheaper and better to just get the superlift.

With what I'm proposing, I would be maintaining the kinematic relationship of the upper and lower control arm and no spindles would be required. Just taking care of the added distance in a different location, no in a new spindle. As long as the vectors are working in the same angular relationship, the distance between the control arms doesn't matter.

[Matt]

How are you lowering the LCA and maintaining the angular relationship without utilizing a longer spindle? You can't increase the distance between the control arm mounts without also increasing the distance between the balljoints by the same exact amount without messing up the relationship. It's not a "one or the other" type of thing, both are required.

[Sal-XK]

Even if you could double stack the suspension would be horrible I would think with almost no down travel.

[valpacer]

If you were to do that and keep the factory knuckle, you would need to angle the bj mounts or they would run out of travel very quickly and bind, and the resultant travel would be a short arc instead of a relatively straight travel with the factory or superlift setup. Your upper and lower control arms need to be in a same plane relationship (yes I'm generalizing but for this case it will do!)

Your bump steer would be horrendous too.



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[valpacer]

Sorry, phone hadn't updated, what Matt and Sal said!! :-D

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[cmdr jim]

I have the pivot points all worked out as to keeping it all as stock, think of it as moving everything down 1-1/2". So when done the CV joints and tie rods see a 2-1/2" lift, Is 2-1/2" of lift too much?

[Matt]

Jim, you definitely don't have it figured out unless I'm reading it wrong? Forget about tie rods & CV axles.... first step is UCA/LCA/Spindle. You said you're lowering the LCA pivot point and using the stock spindle. The are you moving the UCA down too? That's the only alternate method to maintaining the kinematic relationship of the system.... if you lower the pivot point of the LCA you must either utilize a longer spindle OR lower the UCA equivalently.

If you don't use one of those methods the car will not drive. Try drawing it out to scale best you can and calculate the equation for the spindle angle in relation to the vertical axis (aka camber). The change in camber as the suspension cycles is a key design factor which aids in driveability, handling and performance. Its allowable delta is also bounded by the steering restrictions since camber changes correlate directly to toe angle changes. If that relationship is also not maintained you'll (at a minimum) have a bad case of bump steer which can not be corrected by other means.

[07JeepXK]

I Want to have the SL on mine before Adam does!

Haha unless your getting one in the next couple months then I don't see that happening!

[Matt]

Ya never know.....

[06JeepXKHEMI]

I want to know what some WKs are saying when in their mod list they say "Modified OME"? Is that with the 1/4" spacer up front or is there other components they add

[07JeepXK]

Ya never know.....

I got my bonus coming soon! 5k

[Matt]

I want to know what some WKs are saying when in their mod list they say "Modified OME"? Is that with the 1/4" spacer up front or is there other components they add

That's the 1/4" spacer up front like I'm running... nothing else magical. "Modified OME" sounds cooler than "additional tiny spacer"

[Matt]

I got my bonus coming soon! 5k

Lol well then..... it seems as though I undercharged you for those spacers! :p

[06JeepXKHEMI]

speaking of the spacers, I never got your paypal info to send the payment to you..

[Matt]

PM'd you

[Core XK]

Haha unless your getting one in the next couple months then I don't see that happening!

And this means you will be selling your OME? :rolleyes:

[Matt]

And this means you will be selling your OME? :rolleyes:

You won't need it.... you'll be ordering a SL with me

[Core XK]

You won't need it.... you'll be ordering a SL with me

lmao

[cmdr jim]

I am going to take a look this afternoon in the wheelwell again, but after finding this picture on Rocky Road's website my idea may not work.
I have pretty much convinced myself the whole engine cradle can be lowered 1-1/2" along with the transmission crossbar lowered 1-1/2". Lowering the front subframe with steel or aluminum spacers and longer grade 10.9 fasteners. Next was to lengthen the lower section of the steering column shaft between the last two u-joints. The 1-1/2" is the max because the headers are getting very close to the steering column u-joint. If I was running stock exhaust manifolds 2" may have been possible.
But I also thought there was room to re-drill holes 1-1/2" lower for the Upper Arm pivot points. With the way the body is constructed in that area, that may not be possible unless a section was cut out and new welded in.

[Matt]

Yeah there's not much room there to lower the UCAs. That pic doesn't show it very well, but the region beneath the pivots also slopes outwards.... so to lower then straight down you'd have to cut out everything there and weld in custom braces.

Lowering the engine cradle eh? I think ill continue focusing on saving for the SL lol.

[Core XK]

Yeah there's not much room there to lower the UCAs. That pic doesn't show it very well, but the region beneath the pivots also slopes outwards.... so to lower then straight down you'd have to cut out everything there and weld in custom braces.

Lowering the engine cradle eh? I think ill continue focusing on saving for the SL lol.

SL before January RC trip? I'd be GLAD to come down and give you a hand! thanks for asking

[cmdr jim]

Lowering the engine cradle eh?

It's sounds worse then it is. Looks pretty simple. Best thing about it would be lowering the whole drivetrain.

[Matt]

Maybe next summer depending on how broke I am....
(With 2 kids in daycare.... don't get your hopes up!!)

[Matt]

It's sounds worse then it is. Looks pretty simple. Best thing about it would be lowering the whole drivetrain.

Yeah I've taken engine cradles down before on other vehicles. Not hard work. But not a method I would like to achieve lift by either. It's basically equivalent to a body lift. ... doesn't help your belly clearance other than slightly larger tires. So although the cost will be lower than the SL, its a lot of work with minimal gains IMO.

[cmdr jim]

How much does the SL kit drop the lower control arm pivot points?

[Matt]

4"

My plan is to run the 4" superlift and add 1-1.5" for a total of ~5.5" lift.

[06JeepXKHEMI]

Matt, im intrigued by your idea.. Im good for right now but once I see what you are planning on the XK Im already getting the itch!!! hahahaha Im going for performance mods now

[Core XK]

Matt, im intrigued by your idea.. Im good for right now but once I see what you are planning on the XK Im already getting the itch!!! hahahaha Im going for performance mods now

x2 try living close to him :( its not easy....

[Matt]

Matt, im intrigued by your idea.. Im good for right now but once I see what you are planning on the XK Im already getting the itch!!! hahahaha Im going for performance mods now

You're just like Corey... wasn't it like "yesterday" that you said you're "good" with the OME because it "gets you through everything you want to get through"; then today you've got the itch! LOL you's guys!

[Core XK]

LOL Matt, we just say it to make ourselves feel better at that current moment....when we ALL know me and Andrew are completely addicted and it will be no time before we are both running a SL w/ 33's

UGH! it felt good to get it off my chest!

[Matt]

I'm gonna have to start looking into rear shock options for the 5" lift...

[06JeepXKHEMI]

Dont get me wrong I am good with the OME it does everything I need, for now... All I was saying is I can picture what youre planning and its makes me get that itch, unless my next few bonuses net me 10k+ I wont have a SL for awhile!!!

[Matt]

5.5" lift and some 305/70/17 Kevlar MTRs.... I can see it now....

[Core XK]

5.5" lift and some 305/70/17 Kevlar MTRs.... I can see it now....

I can see it now too lol....atleast Serena will be on board! lol

[Sal-XK]

4"

My plan is to run the 4" superlift and add 1-1.5" for a total of ~5.5" lift.

That's it right there I've said this before that a perfect lift is about 5" 1/2. Any bigger and you have to worry to much about your COG.

[stites-xk]

Thats what i have right now 5.5 in front 4.5 in rear then with the spacer matt is making that will be 5 in rear. Next time i need tires they will be 305

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[07JeepXK]

5.5" lift and some 305/70/17 Kevlar MTRs.... I can see it now....

Hey that's what I planned on doing.

[Matt]

.... i said it first!

[07JeepXK]

.... i said it first!

Um I don't think you did. Lol ask Andrew, I've had those plans forever. But you do have a good taste in tire choice.

[06JeepXKHEMI]

I have to give this one to Adam, we were just talking about this last weekend..

[Matt]

Corey and I were talking about it over 3 weeks ago. :p

[06JeepXKHEMI]

I cant quite remember when he text me his plans but it was one of the times he was selling his XK and had plans for the new one, its gone back and forth I cant keep track!! None the less both are great ideas

[Core XK]

lmao

[Matt]

I cant quite remember when he text me his plans but it was one of the times he was selling his XK and had plans for the new one, its gone back and forth I cant keep track!! None the less both are great ideas

Lol man I've had this "plan" for almost 2 years now.... long before you probably ever thought of purchasing an XK.

.....sad part is I think Corey is going to beat Both me and Adam to it! Hahahahaha

[Core XK]

Lol man I've had this "plan" for almost 2 years now.... long before you probably ever thought of purchasing an XK.

.....sad part is I think Corey is going to beat Both me and Adam to it! Hahahahaha

LOL I don't want to say your wrong just yet.....you never know with me

btw matt....are you busy sept. 23rd weekend? I think it may be the only weekend I am open for the month :(

[Core XK]

oops I meant Sept. 29th

[Matt]

My anniversary is Sept 27th.... but we don't have plans that I know of yet. So I "should" be free that weekend

[Core XK]

My anniversary is Sept 27th.... but we don't have plans that I know of yet. So I "should" be free that weekend

Oh nice! well its no big deal we have until Oct. 27th :P

[06JeepXKHEMI]

Could always do installs in RC parking lot

[Core XK]

lmao that is very true

[Matt]

Oh nice! well its no big deal we have until Oct. 27th :P

We'll probably be doing your OME install in October though

[Core XK]

We'll probably be doing your OME install in October though

lol That's not in the budget right now!

[Matt]

lol That's not in the budget right now!

Neither were the Duratracs, or the diff guard, or the shocks, or the skids, or the..... shall I continue??? :)

[Core XK]

Please don't LOL

[Core XK]

I think you and Serena should treat yourselves to a really nice anniversary present...............*cough* SL *cough*

[Matt]

I'm thinking that's more of a fathers day present.... ya know, father/son bonding because JT would have fun helping! (And I plan on having the XK paid off by then)

[Core XK]

Paid off is always nice! lol I have another 4 1/2 years :P

[stites-xk]

Paid off is always nice! lol I have another 4 1/2 years :P

Me too man but only 3 1/2

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[07JeepXK]

I have 10 payments left but plan on having mine paid off before/during winter. I sooo can't wait!

[Matt]

Same here... except I have 15 payments left. Thinking of trying to sell my stock wheels and a few other things, and should be getting a small bonus from work in the spring that should help me knock it out before next summer.

[06JeepXKHEMI]

Ive got a cpl years to go, making double payments to pay off early.. Here's a questions to revive this thread, if you got SL spindles and drop brackets then stacking a lift would be possible correct?

[Matt]

Ive got a cpl years to go, making double payments to pay off early.. Here's a questions to revive this thread, if you got SL spindles and drop brackets then stacking a lift would be possible correct?

Not sure if I understand your question, that's basically what the superlift is.... it comes with a 4" strut spacer. Though its not really "lift stacking" because it maintains OEM suspension angles at 4" of lift (due to the drop brackets/spindles/etc).

However, once you have the 4" superlift you can then "stack" on some extra lift via spacers/springs/etc to get an effective 5-6" increase in ride height and run angles equivalent to 1-2" spacer lifts on stock vehicles. My opinion is that 5-5.5" is the sweet spot so you still have plenty of "droop" left in the suspension, but also plenty of clearance.

[06JeepXKHEMI]

Thats what I thought so when are you doing this Matt?!??!

[Matt]

Depends on a lot of things working out.... tell ya what though, worst case i'll be ordering the lift the month after my kids are done daycare!

[07JeepXK]

I'll be placing an order most likely in November. That's when I'm being told I'll finally get my over due reenlistment bonus.

[Matt]

I just said to my wife "so what you think about the superlift for next summer?"

Her: that's 5" right
Me: yup
Her: only if you put 35s on it
Me: How about 34s?
Her: OK that'll work

:)

[Core XK]

I just said to my wife "so what you think about the superlift for next summer?"

Her: that's 5" right
Me: yup
Her: only if you put 35s on it
Me: How about 34s?
Her: OK that'll work

:)

LOL!! there should be a thread for "Best XK Wife Support" Serena would win.......my fiance on the otherhand....

[Matt]

She definitely loves the hobby!

[Sal-XK]

I just said to my wife "so what you think about the superlift for next summer?"

Her: that's 5" right
Me: yup
Her: only if you put 35s on it
Me: How about 34s?
Her: OK that'll work

:)

Nice!!!!!

[XK N00b]

My plan is to run the 4" superlift and add 1-1.5" for a total of ~5.5" lift.

It's starting to look like I'll be ordering the SL in the next couple weeks. What risk am I running if I stack thr RC lift on the SL?

[valpacer]

Yep, Matts on the right track, the 5 inch is where it needs to be, if i keep IFS it will come down to around that early next year, after upgrading all the front now im stressing on the tie rod ends and rack, which over here aren't easy to get and expensive.

Some guard trimming to allow some 34's to fully tuck would be ideal, unless some gears can become available. I have emailed Yukon, and they have got me to email them the diff tags from the carriers, but i havent heard anything since.

Dave

[Matt]

It's starting to look like I'll be ordering the SL in the next couple weeks. What risk am I running if I stack thr RC lift on the SL?

The RC spacer is basically 2" tall. Due to geometry this ends up being a little over 3" at the hub... I recall someone trying to run that setup and it was just too tall. Same deal with the OME springs. I plan to cut a coil (maybe slightly more) off my front springs

[oleblue27]

My commander is 2WD, and currently I have the 2' RC lift with 285/70/17's. I am contemplating on purchasing the OME 2" lift and then stacking the RC lift on top of it. I know it will be a lot easier with me having 2WD, but I will still have to worry about he UCA angles... I contacted Superlift and was quoted at $385 for a set of their spindles. Then he told me that he advises against it because of steering control and all this nonsense.. Was he right, or should I just go ahead and get them?

[07JeepXK]

I don't think that I would go that route with the superlift knuckles. But that's just my opinion. If your going to spend the money on another lift and steering knuckles why not just buy a superlift and sell your old lift to get some money back.

[06JeepXKHEMI]

^^ Agreed SL is what 1600?? the OME is going to run you $800+ all the isolators and extra things you should do since youre there +$385 for the knuckles and youre at 1200-1300.. Sell the RC for $100-120 and youre damn near the cost of SL

[oleblue27]

This is the thing, I don't have the money to spend 1600 all at 1 time for the superlift, especially since rough country may be in the works for a lift in he next couple years. Why not just get the ome lift and stack my rc lift just like that without adding spindles. That would give me 4 inches for half the price of the superlift. And considering I'm 2wd and I'm really eat on my jeep and dot offroad it I should be good, right? Then whenever I do hav the money for the superlift I can sell my rc lift and then combine the ome and superlift. What you guys think.

[Matt]

I think you'll be replacing balljoints and steering racks and it would be cheaper to just get the superlift from the start. I dont know why everyone thinks that its "4x4" that causes problems with these types of lifts.... CVs are very resilient and cheap to replace. Its the suspension and steering components that the problem, and they're the same whether you're 2wd or 4x4.

And back to the spindle thing. You CAN NOT install the spindles without the superlift drop down brackets.

I dont think anyone makes them for the Commanders, but a lot of companies sell 2wd lift spindles that are basically identical to stock spindles except the hub is mounted lower.

[lekmedm]

^^ Agreed SL is what 1600??

Where can you get the SL for $1600???

[07JeepXK]

You can get the superlift a lot of places for $1600. The kits that are like $1800-1900 come with the EGR module from AEV.

[Matt]

You can get the superlift a lot of places

Well, technically you can't get the superlift anywhere period. lol

[07JeepXK]

Haha that's true. Well you can get it. Just have to wait like 5 months until it arrives on your door step. I might as well order one now for the Hemi XK lol

[Matt]

If I could order it and have it in five months I would have already placed my order. From what I've been told Superlift hasn't released a production date yet. That's one of the reasons I opted for a new set of tires........ I don't want to be on a used stock set for a year.

[07JeepXK]

Damn that sucks. Well I know for sure my 4.7 liter XK will never see a superlift. It needs to much work as it is and ill be hitting 120,000 miles in the next few months. I would rather install one on a fresh Hemi XK

[Core XK]

Damn that sucks. Well I know for sure my 4.7 liter XK will never see a superlift. It needs to much work as it is and ill be hitting 120,000 miles in the next few months. I would rather install one on a fresh Hemi XK

Why don't you try and grab a HEMI now? even if its a QTII you have the locker...

[07JeepXK]

I was thinking about it. I was also thinking about bringing the XK back to stock so I could swap my parts to the new Hemi. My buddy bob just ordered the HD OME lift and will sell me his old tires for $300. They only have a few thousand miles on them. I would just need to find some wheels to mount them on. That and I would need some oem UCAs

[Core XK]

I was thinking about it. I was also thinking about bringing the XK back to stock so I could swap my parts to the new Hemi. My buddy bob just ordered the HD OME lift and will sell me his old tires for $300. They only have a few thousand miles on them. I would just need to find some wheels to mount them on. That and I would need some oem UCAs

Well you know how to fix anything that DOES go wrong with your current XK BUT....do you really want to keep dumping $$ into it when you could be putting that into a less mileage hemi w/ locker? I think you should try to bring yours to stock and make the switch....I can't see it being a bad move but I don't know your entire situation either.

I'd give you my OEM UCAs but I won't be getting new ones for awhile :(

[07JeepXK]

I can get a newer vehicle at any time now. It's just finding the one I'm looking for. I think if I got a HEMI I'd want QD II though so I'd probably just sell the diff cover and locker.

[Matt]

I think now's a good time to put your 07 back to stock. Winters around the corner so we all wont be wheeling as much and it'll be easier to sell/trade the XK when snow is a threat in peoples minds.

Get a set of Dorman UCAs from RockAuto. Not expensive at all.

[Matt]

And I have some nice stock wheels/tires I'd sell ya.... chrome limited rims may even help as a selling point. :)

....2007 tpms sensors too!

[Core XK]

I can get a newer vehicle at any time now. It's just finding the one I'm looking for. I think if I got a HEMI I'd want QD II though so I'd probably just sell the diff cover and locker.

True, if I was were to do it over again with the knowledge I have now I'd get the QDII as well; but if you find a great deal on a QTII Hemi then you can weigh your options since you have the locker/Diff. Guard

[oleblue27]

I talked to a guy at superlift, and he said they are just waiting on the rear coils fr the superlift. He said they should be shipping out within the next few weeks.

[06JeepXKHEMI]

Return it to stock and get a HEMI QDII, stop with all this bs constantly fixing it.. Next thing to go is the 4.7. Sell it, take the money get a newer nicer XK and have 4-6 mths to build it into a BEAST!

[Core XK]

I think you got the consensus from the group Adam lol!

[07JeepXK]

Haha yea I'd say so.

[Matt]

I talked to a guy at superlift, and he said they are just waiting on the rear coils fr the superlift. He said they should be shipping out within the next few weeks.

That would be awesome!

Did you order one?

[07JeepXK]

To bad you didn't know that earlier Matt you could have got your tires in a bigger size

[Matt]

Depends on who Jon talked to. I may try calling them myself today to be a tie breaker..... wonder if superlift is giving different stories depending on who calls; vendors vs consumers.... may want to keep the consumers from buying a competitors kit so tell them something more "optimistic"

[07JeepXK]

That's is true. I personally still wouldn't order until it's sitting on a shelf and ready to ship.

[Core XK]

yeah I agree with ya Adam....it cost a pretty penny to begin with; the last thing you want is to wait 5 months :/