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kmax
11-10-2010, 12:43 PM
We took advantage of the incredible weather and spent the weekend in Moab running on Hell's Revenge (always a favorite) and Moab Rim.

My brother climbing a step, my boss' GC in the background
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/DSC_0450-1.jpg

My XK up the same area - slightly different line for the clearance impaired
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/CIMG3123-1.jpg

The XK out of Car Wash
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/DSC_0468-1.jpg

The new 285's are so much more becoming
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/DSC_0437-1.jpg

Now on to Moab Rim - my boss in his ZJ climbing up Devils Crack
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/CIMG3167-1.jpg

My XK coming up Z-Turn
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/DSC_0501-1.jpg

Headed to the top of Moab Rim
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/CIMG3198-1.jpg

My brother blew up his PS front axle. Thankfully, we had a spare and the tools to fix it. One hour, four hamburgers and a couple of beers later, we were back in business.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/DSC_0546-1.jpg

Me back down Z-Turn
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/CIMG3208-1.jpg

My brother and his new axle stepping off Devils Crack
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/11/DSC_0549-1.jpg

Other than that, no breakage. Two days goes fast in Moab, can't wait for May!

superacerc
11-10-2010, 01:15 PM
Absolutely Beautiful! Thanks for the pics. Me and the XK dream of heading to moab one day.

strokeZ
11-10-2010, 01:26 PM
ahhhh don't you just love a good XK in the morning!!!! Great photos!

kmax
11-10-2010, 01:51 PM
A curious thing about those new tires...

I bought a heat gun and some plastic rivets to pull the front fender liners out and I intended to bend the pinch weld over, reshape the liners, etc. I noticed right away I had no rubbing on the street and figured when I got to Moab, I'd spend the evening doing that whole process, because surely once it started flexing around, there would be problems. I decided to wait and see how bad the rubbing was. After running Hell's Revenge and including Tip-Over-Challenge, I have very minor rubbing in front, just enough to rub off the mud, really. The rear is my problem. The crunched tire radiuses forward enough that on both sides, the tires popped the rivets out of the door-mounted fender flare sections and popped the ends of the plastic rocker cover off. Not at all what I expected and not sure I'll do anything about it. Though eventually I may ditch the rear SL setup and go with the BDS adjustable control arms mounted in the stock locations.

Knappster
11-10-2010, 07:57 PM
I would love to go run those trails someday.

Sal-XK
11-11-2010, 06:39 AM
awesome pics man that looks like a great time.

El Cid
11-11-2010, 08:14 AM
The rear is my problem. The crunched tire radiuses forward enough that on both sides, the tires popped the rivets out of the door-mounted fender flare sections and popped the ends of the plastic rocker cover off. Not at all what I expected and not sure I'll do anything about it. Though eventually I may ditch the rear SL setup and go with the BDS adjustable control arms mounted in the stock locations.

Or perhaps a setup like mine will be available soon, that combines the SL with a BDS-style control arm structure in the rear.

strokeZ
11-11-2010, 08:46 AM
Ok I have to ask this....do you think your issue with the tires is due to the lift or due to your wheel set up? Reason I ask is becuase I have been talking a lot to AEV and they swear up and down that their Pintler wheels will have no issues whatsoever with the 285's. They use 17x8.5 rims with 25 mm offset (~5.3" backspacing), which for the life of me I cannot find in any other wheel that will fit our rigs. I remember reading Mikes writeup on the lift comparisons and this issue was very clear on the rear control arms.

kmax
11-12-2010, 03:02 PM
The issue with the rear tires rubbing is definitely with the lift. The rear control arms are only slightly downward from the mount to the axle when the Jeep is in a flat, static position. When the compressed side of the axle moves upward, it almost immediately starts also moving forward from the short radius of the control arms. Another problem (in my opinion) with the design of the SL kit is the relatively large rear lower control arm brackets. They hang me up on any ledge larger than about 13 inches. The passenger side bracket is beat silly, I probably should take it off and straighten it out. The BDS setup (and I'm guessing the method of setup Mike is talking about) would alleviate both of these 'issues'.

I'm running (as I'm sure you see in the pics) Rubicon Moab rims with 1.5" spacers. This is probably very similar to AEV's specs when using the Pintler wheel which of course doesn't require spacers. The rubbing in the rear could also be caused by the difference in some tires even when listed as 285/70's - the KM2's seem to have relatively deep tread blocks. They had 400 miles on them when I went to Moab, they probably won't rub at all after 20K.

El Cid
11-12-2010, 03:55 PM
Sounds familiar indeed! This is the issue that Ross of GetLost fame accused me of lying about on the other forum: the current Superlift design forces the tire to radius forward in the well far too quickly, limiting wheel travel and causing rubbing problems and the associated damage. (This isn't, as I've discussed elsewhere, as big a problem as the full so-called 4" BDS kit had, however, but those kits are no longer available.)

And, yes, this problem is exactly the one my modified kit is meant to alleviate, while also getting rid of those related brackets. I hope that a kit with the design I have hits the market soon.

Utilizing the old BDS adjustable arms -- so long as they're the "bent" ones -- is a sensible solution in the meantime. I had one of my BDS arms fail, but my experience with BDS's manufacturing quality would indicate that this was an exception rather than a rule.

kmax
11-12-2010, 04:49 PM
Good to know, Mike. I have new BDS lower control arms still in the box, but I've been hesitant to install them until I can eliminate the upper control arm brackets as well. I haven't looked for BDS adjustable uppers yet, but I guess that's the next step unless your kit comes out soon...

strokeZ
11-15-2010, 02:26 PM
I assume you did not have this issue when running the 255's? Might be a good choice to forego the extra 0.5" ground clearance and wait till Mike can give us a solution :-)

What do you think would have happened if you were running rock sliders? Do you think that type of rubbing (on the plastic rockers) would have given you major issues if you had a slider installed?

El Cid
11-15-2010, 08:29 PM
Just to be clear: 4xGuard has no plans to manufacture the solution. I'm just testing the modified kit for the manufacturer and pressing them every chance I get to make it a reality.

strokeZ
11-15-2010, 09:09 PM
Thanks for clarifying Mike. Perhaps we can get a few people to chime in if we feel like its an issue to be addressed and give you some momentum???

El Cid
11-16-2010, 11:08 AM
I appreciate the suggestions, strokeZ. The manufacturer is well aware of the issue and what a massive improvement my modifications represent. It's just a question of them having the time to get the engineering completed on it. There's only so many hours in the day, you know?

06blkhemi
11-17-2010, 07:24 PM
This is a very excellent thread !! Will this mod mean anything to us with just the spacer lifts,to help with rear articulation ? Next I love to see a solid front axle conversion,maybe using a Dana 44 ?!

Frank

El Cid
11-18-2010, 07:30 AM
It would be a change for the 4" set-up; would do nothing for the 2" folks.

And I wouldn't hold your breath on a front-axle swap -- nor would I personally see the point in it.

kmax
11-19-2010, 05:33 PM
As Mike said, there's really no point in a solid axle swap, unless you simply want to be the first on Earth (that I know of) to do it. I've looked into it in great detail along with the owner of a local fab shop known for the rock buggies it puts out. It would take a fab shop probably a couple weeks and about $8K. You would likely end up with a long-arm setup loosely based on an XJ kit for the front and a ZJ type setup in the rear. Reason for the long-arm setup is to get the front solid axle low enough to clear the motor with some reasonable margin of travel. The XK would be at least 6" of lift over stock, but more realistically 8" or so. The rear short arm factory setup can't begin to deal with that. Take a look at the Libertys that have been solid axled, they're about 8" of overall lift. While that may sound cool, that's getting pretty tall to do safe off roading. While the mechanical issues can be overcome, if you try to do a solid axle conversion on a QDII rig, you have to make the computer deal with the elimination of at least the front ELSD. And that's only if you regear whatever front axle is chosen (likely a Rubi D44 w/ factory locker) back down to 3.73 since 4.10's are not available for the rear. So you see there are issues. Electrically it would be a nightmare. If I were to actually attempt it, it would be with a non QDII XK. As it is, I plan on doing a front axle swap, but there will be a 2012 JK with a pentastar V6 attached to it. Probably sometime late next summer. Until then, the nagging IFS will have to do. It's not making any clunks at the moment, but just wait until tomorrow.

06blkhemi
11-19-2010, 05:56 PM
As Mike said, there's really no point in a solid axle swap, unless you simply want to be the first on Earth (that I know of) to do it. I've looked into it in great detail along with the owner of a local fab shop known for the rock buggies it puts out. It would take a fab shop probably a couple weeks and about $8K. You would likely end up with a long-arm setup loosely based on an XJ kit for the front and a ZJ type setup in the rear. Reason for the long-arm setup is to get the front solid axle low enough to clear the motor with some reasonable margin of travel. The XK would be at least 6" of lift over stock, but more realistically 8" or so. The rear short arm factory setup can't begin to deal with that. Take a look at the Libertys that have been solid axled, they're about 8" of overall lift. While that may sound cool, that's getting pretty tall to do safe off roading. While the mechanical issues can be overcome, if you try to do a solid axle conversion on a QDII rig, you have to make the computer deal with the elimination of at least the front ELSD. And that's only if you regear whatever front axle is chosen (likely a Rubi D44 w/ factory locker) back down to 3.73 since 4.10's are not available for the rear. So you see there are issues. Electrically it would be a nightmare. If I were to actually attempt it, it would be with a non QDII XK. As it is, I plan on doing a front axle swap, but there will be a 2012 JK with a pentastar V6 attached to it. Probably sometime late next summer. Until then, the nagging IFS will have to do. It's not making any clunks at the moment, but just wait until tomorrow.
Looking at the pics you posted,the XK looks to do just fine with the IFS and the ELSD's ! The problem with the 2"spacer lift,you really don't get any performance gain in suspension just a bit of lift for bigger tires,which I guess is actually a bit of performance gain,but not much..

kmax
11-19-2010, 06:23 PM
You're right, 06 - it does pretty dang good with QDII. I agree with you on the spacer lift issue as well. But since the XK is so low to begin with, the bigger tires fitted and made possible by a spacer lift increase the XK's ability by a bunch right there. Even with the 4" lift, I was running 265's for a long time since the stupid things wouldn't wear out. Even then, I didn't have a clearance advantage over anyone running a 2" lift with the same tires. Finally putting on some 285's made a nice difference, as well as getting rid of the RR supersliders. The only thing smacking rocks in Moab were those rear lower control arm brackets. Bottom line is, the XK is as good a platform as one can get with an independent front suspension, especially when modified, and extraspecially when one has QDII. But a JK Rubi, with it's solid axle, and certainly when modified will absolutely outperform any XK off road. So rather than experiment with a solid axle swap with uncertain results (would it really off-road better than it does now? Unknown.), I'll opt for a rig I know will go most places I point it and still be comfortable enough on the street. One thing I would certainly miss is the Hemi. But the pentastar V6 has 20+ more horsepower than a 4.7HO, so it will have to do. Love the XK, pretty much over the IFS.

06blkhemi
11-19-2010, 06:50 PM
I sold my 01 XJ with a Rubicon Express 3.5 superflex lift,with tons of suspension travel,for this XK. The kids are getting bigger and we're planning on getting a bigger travel trailer,so the XK fits the bill. But it is what it is,not a big travel solid axle vehicle,but a nice,comfy and still capable for most offroading vehicle and most of all it says JEEP on it !!:cool:

kmax
11-19-2010, 07:06 PM
You said it! I really do like the luxury of my Commander - and we bought it originally when our daughter was born to have a safe, big vehicle around her (as opposed to the '98 Audi A4 we had at the time). But now when we go off road, it's all I can do to keep her from hanging out the side window watching stuff go by. We both need a wrangler, without a roof and without doors.