TrialByFire's Garage

[TrialByFire]

Here's the beginning of an addiction. My stock '06 Limited in early October 2010. (Well, it was not quite stock. I went with 245/70R17 GY SilentArmors.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/IMAGE_144-1.jpg
Here is April 2011 with the Rocky Road lift (which went on in November 2010.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/After_RR-1.jpg
And May 2011 after the RR lift came off and the Superlift went on along with some 285/70R17 BFG MT KM2s.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/After_SL-1.jpg

[cico7]

Cool wheels.

[TrialByFire]

Cool wheels.

I ordered Mickey Thompson Classic IIs originally, but there was rubbing so I switched to the (25mm) AEV Pintlers. I really like them so far except the valve stem guards don't come out far enough to completely protect the rigid TPMS stems.

[LWM]

That is one meaty looking Commander.

[Matt]

Looks awesome! Can't wait to put a 4" on mine

[TrialByFire]

I took it out this weekend for a test run. There were some interesting differences from the RR lift with 245/70R17 SAs. The added clearance is very nice obviously. With the big Mud Terrains though powering up those dunes was not to be done as I couldn't keep the rpms up. Maybe it's just technique. Not a big problem as they did great at everything else I tried.

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/P1040428-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/P1040441-1.jpg

[Sal-XK]

Sweet photos bro. Are you saying you didn't have enough power to get up the canyon. Were you in 4LO? Not sure I understand with the 5.7L you should have plenty of power.

[Matt]

wow... freaking wow man, i love your XK!!

How is the clearance when you're flexing with those 285/70/17s? Any rubbing or did you do some pinch weld mods? I know guys run them with the 2" spacers, but i was planning on getting 265/70/17's when i put on my SL (but i want to run the Mickey Thompson ATZs which usually run "larger" than advertised).

[NeilSmith]

When you say you couldn't keep the rpms up, I assume you had the traction control turned off ?

[TrialByFire]

Sweet photos bro. Are you saying you didn't have enough power to get up the canyon. Were you in 4LO? Not sure I understand with the 5.7L you should have plenty of power.

It was a 80-foot sand dune that I couldn't get up, not the gully in the photo.

[TrialByFire]

wow... freaking wow man, i love your XK!!

How is the clearance when you're flexing with those 285/70/17s? Any rubbing or did you do some pinch weld mods? I know guys run them with the 2" spacers, but i was planning on getting 265/70/17's when i put on my SL (but i want to run the Mickey Thompson ATZs which usually run "larger" than advertised).

I did mod the pinch welds in the front but there is a bit (maybe more than a bit) of rubbing at full flex in the rear. I need to get out the heat gun again.

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/DSC04813-1.jpg

[TrialByFire]

When you say you couldn't keep the rpms up, I assume you had the traction control turned off ?

On the dune, I had exactly the same attack (4-hi, traction control off) as with the RR lift and SilentArmors which never gave me a problem on the same dune (and put a lot of JKs to shame!). I see three things adding up to create the problem. First, going from 30" to 33" tires. Second, going from an AT (fairly closed tread pattern) to the BFG M/T KM2s which paddle like crazy. Third, I aired down to 18 lbs (same as I did with the SAs) but with a 33, I may need to go down to 12 lbs to get the same float. The problem was, I couldn't get up on the torque curve and just ran out of power (and yes, it is the Hemi!). There was a lot of other sand on the run and it did fine, though not as well as before the new tires.

Neil, the Mickey Thompson 265/70s should be fine IMHO (unless you really need that extra 1/2" of clearance).

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/P1040415-1.jpg

[Matt]

I wonder if you could get longer bump stops for the rear to limit the compression a bit more....

Your rig really has me 2nd guessing my plan. What is the width and backspace on those wheels???

The stance is perfect with those 285s, to the point that 265s may look small. :( .... the MTR Kevlars come in a 275/70/17 which may fit the bill a bit better to prevent rubbing offroading but still fill the wheel wells nicely.... I just wish more tires were available in that size: its either 265 or 285 if you want options.

Also can you snap some pics of the JBA UCAs installed and your CV & tie rod angles? I've been wondering how they all look with the 4" SL. If the look stock, I may consider a 1" spacer with the SL to help clear the 285s... and sleep better at night!

[Sal-XK]

Oh ok bro sand dunes. Ya that makes sense to me now thanks. Again sweet XK bro!

[Matt]

We need more XKs driving around like this.... start spreading the "mod bug" around to other xk owners like an airborne virus!

[TrialByFire]

I wonder if you could get longer bump stops for the rear to limit the compression a bit more....

Your rig really has me 2nd guessing my plan. What is the width and backspace on those wheels???

The stance is perfect with those 285s, to the point that 265s may look small. :( .... the MTR Kevlars come in a 275/70/17 which may fit the bill a bit better to prevent rubbing offroading but still fill the wheel wells nicely.... I just wish more tires were available in that size: its either 265 or 285 if you want options.

Also can you snap some pics of the JBA UCAs installed and your CV & tie rod angles? I've been wondering how they all look with the 4" SL. If the look stock, I may consider a 1" spacer with the SL to help clear the 285s... and sleep better at night!

The bump stops on the coils have a 4-inch extender now. They didn't have any extender with the RR lift so I've already lost a couple of inches flex. I'm pretty sure I can remold the flares a bit to clear better.

The wheels are AEV Pintlers (17 x 8.5) with the 25mm offset designed for the XK. If you use a 1" spacer you will probably have major rubbing in the front with anything bigger than a 265/70. Here is a front view of my setup.

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/Wheels_1-1.jpg

I will get some photos of the JBA and tie rod/CV angles to post. FYI, the CV angles are now less than they were with the RR lift. Obviously, the drive shaft angles are greater now than before.

[Matt]

Awesome, thanks man.

And by "spacer" I meant a coil body spacer for the front and coil spring spacer for the rear for an extra 1" of lift. This would give us 1" more clearance when fully compressed in addition to the ride height. (Edit: even a 1/2" or 3/4" may do the trick)

My wheels are 8.5" wide with +18mm offset, so my stance would be almost identical to yours.

I'm fairly certain that because of you, Ill either get the ATZs or Xtreme ATs in the 285s. :)

Looking forward to seeing some suspension pics!

[Sal-XK]

I would think the drive shaft can handle the increased angle a lot better then the CV's could. How much did the SL drop your diff?

[TrialByFire]

I would think the drive shaft can handle the increased angle a lot better then the CV's could. How much did the SL drop your diff?

The SL dropped the diff by 4 inches. A side note: when I had the SL installed, they discovered the front drive shaft was bad (both the CV and U-joint) so I had them replace it. The vehicle had 72K miles on it (58K when I bought it) and because the RR lift had been on only 6 months and hadn't increased any angles, we didn't think it was lift-related so the extended warranty covered it.

[Matt]

You don't happen to have a part number for that driveshaft do you?

[Sal-XK]

I've priced out the CV's already I'm just waiting for them to go. I haven't priced out the front drive shaft out though I figured that would be good for a long time but maybe not.

[Matt]

Yeah, CV's are relatively cheap and easy to replace. Make sure you get one with a "lifetime" warranty... then you only need to buy it once :)

Driveshafts do normally last longer; but i can see these full time 4x4 systems being tough on it

[Sal-XK]

I've found the front drive shaft used for around $100 scared myself to death when I saw what a front axle costs LOL

[TrialByFire]

You don't happen to have a part number for that driveshaft do you?

Mopar 52105728AE $305

[TrialByFire]

Here are the suspension pics. I remembered also that both the upper and lower ball joints were bad also. Because I had new JBA UCAs, they only needed to change the lower ball joints.
Crown MEVMK80629 $43 each

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/DSC04832-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/DSC04835-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/DSC04836-1.jpg

From the angle of the front CVs, there shouldn't be a problem with adding another inch of body spacer.

I posted on that "other" forum that the JKS quick disconnects would not fit with the 4" SL. The SL swaybar links are 13" long and the most the JKS discos are rated for is 11.5". I extended the JKS to 11.5" and put them on and I can see no problems. The sway bar has plenty of travel in either direction.

[Sal-XK]

Wow bro you might as well just do my front bumper mod (http://www.xk-forum.com/showthread.php/685-Front-Bumper-Mod?highlight=front+bumper)on that jeep bro https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2010/06/100_4029JPG-1.jpg

All the angles look good bro I like

[Matt]

Thanks for the pics!

And I agree.... 1 more inch probably wouldn't be bad. Wouldn't go much more than that though for the sake of the tie rod and steering rack.

[TrialByFire]

Wow bro you might as well just do my front bumper mod (http://www.xk-forum.com/showthread.php/685-Front-Bumper-Mod?highlight=front+bumper)on that jeep bro

Yes. I'm tearing them up but after dropping big $$$ on the lift, wheels and rubber, I will have to save up for awhile before I can give Doc a call. Even then, the front guard may come first.

[Sal-XK]

Yes. I'm tearing them up but after dropping big $$$ on the lift, wheels and rubber, I will have to save up for awhile before I can give Doc a call. Even then, the front guard may come first.

Check the thread out bro chopping the bumper was free man. I put the front guard on it to finish the look off
http://www.xk-forum.com/showthread.php/685-Front-Bumper-Mod?highlight=front+bumper

[TrialByFire]

I do like the look! I'm just freaked out by the idea of taking the sawzall to Sherman. You know, once you start...

[txbajacommander]

great XK and photos, just wondering in the photos with the JBA's there is one shot of the front strut without the coil. Are you running without it?

[Matt]

What picture are you talking about? The coil is in all of the pictures I see....

(and if the coil wasn't in there, the front would be fully compressed and look awkward because there wouldn't be anything holding the front up)

[txbajacommander]

the one right below the JBA shot, I dont see the front coil on the strut. Sorry I stand corrected, you can just see the bottom of it my bad

[Matt]

It's there.

[txbajacommander]

yeah I didnt see it when I first looked. I missed the bottom, I was looking for the whole coil. I do like the look of the JBA UCA's though.

[NeilSmith]

in post # 25 , third pic. there is no coil spring on the strut. ? oh yeah its there, duh.

[strokeZ]

Killer rig dude......

[TrialByFire]

Thanks for the pics!

And I agree.... 1 more inch probably wouldn't be bad. Wouldn't go much more than that though for the sake of the tie rod and steering rack.

I discovered a new problem. I have some grinding on the inner rim of the front wheels at full lock with the wheel somewhat unweighted. It's enough to grind off half of the wheel weights and a portion of the rim.

Here is the driver side wheel at full lock with normal weighting:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/Fr_Driver_weighted_2-1.jpg

Here is the passenger side at full lock with the front end jacked up a ways:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/Fr_Passenger_unweighted-1.jpg

And a closeup:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/Fr_Passenger_unweighted_2-1.jpg

I spoke with AEV and the wheels are the correct 25mm offset version for the XK. We are not sure yet what the problem is.

[Matt]

Wow... interesting..

They're 8.5" wide with +25mm which means they have 5.75" backspace. When dealing with inside rubbing like that, I like to think in terms of backspace since fitment based on "backspace" does not change with wheel width. (in other words, 5" backspace is always 5" backspace... but +25mm offset will differ in fitment depending on the wheel width being discussed).

For instance my wheels are 8" wide with +18mm offset, that equates to 5.25" backspace. That extra 1/2" would probably help with that rubbing issue.

[strokeZ]

I thought the Pintler wheels. were abt 5.3" of backspace

[Matt]

According to their site (http://www.aev-conversions.com/products/wheels/) they're 8.5" wide with +25mm for the XK. That's 5.75" backspace.

Looks like the JK version would be better @ 8.5 wide with +10mm which would be about 5.15" backspace. They'd stick out about 1/2" further than his current set.

[strokeZ]

Copied from AEV XK description "The Pintler is a 17x8.5" wheel with all the features you've come to expect from AEV. This wheel was designed for lifted on non-lifted 05+ Grand Cherokee (WK) and 06+ Commander (XK) with up to 35" tires. (This wheel also works well on non-lifted 07+ JK Wranglers as a factory replacement) Approximate backspacing is 5.3"."

For the JK "The Pintler is a 17x8.5" wheel with all the features you've come to expect from AEV. This wheel was designed for lifted 07+ JK Wranglers running up to 35" tires. Approximate backspacing is 4.7". "

Not trying to one up ya, but want to make sure I understand this properly. There is a thread that goes over offset vs backspacing on the forum somewhere.

I have a wheel - not Pintler - but with the same specs and don't have similar issues. One thing though is I have the weights on the outside facing part of the rim.

[TrialByFire]

With the BFG 285/70s there is little room for fiddling with the offset. Right now, with the 25mm version, the clearance within the wheelwell is less than 1/2". Going to the 10mm Pintlers will probably cause tire rubbing (admittedly, better than wheel rubbing though). Before I bought the Pintlers, I tried Mickey Thompson Classic IIs which had a -12mm offset and there was enough rubbing that I had to return them.

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/05/FrontClearance1-1.jpg

AEV told me that they have a WK in their shop with the same setup and they would look for the cause but had never seen it before. I am wondering if the JBA UCAs are the issue? They may be changing the geometry and I doubt if AEV has experience with them.

[Matt]

Copied from AEV XK description "The Pintler is a 17x8.5" wheel with all the features you've come to expect from AEV. This wheel was designed for lifted on non-lifted 05+ Grand Cherokee (WK) and 06+ Commander (XK) with up to 35" tires. (This wheel also works well on non-lifted 07+ JK Wranglers as a factory replacement) Approximate backspacing is 5.3"."

For the JK "The Pintler is a 17x8.5" wheel with all the features you've come to expect from AEV. This wheel was designed for lifted 07+ JK Wranglers running up to 35" tires. Approximate backspacing is 4.7". "

Not trying to one up ya, but want to make sure I understand this properly. There is a thread that goes over offset vs backspacing on the forum somewhere.


I know how offset/backspace work. And you can look up conversion charts online if you don't know how to calculate it. They mis-printed something on their website, the "approvamaetly 5.3 backspace" is for the JK wheels that have +10mm offset, not the XK wheels that have +25mm offset. Look it up.

Here's the low down that's 100% fact:
For an 8.5" wide wheel to have 5.3" backspace, the offset MUST be around +14 to +15mm.

[strokeZ]

Well without hijacking the issue I think the simple fact remains that I have an 8.5" wheel with +25mm offset and do not have the same problem that TrialByFire does. Matt - Let me ask you this tho - if they mistakenly sent him the JK wheels could that be the source of the problem? I know that is unlikely but you never know.

[Matt]

Oh yeah man... I wasn't saying that was definitely the root cause for his issue. I'm sure they'll figure it out.

If they accidentally sent him the JK wheels with +10mm instead he would have more clearance in that location and not interfere with the tie rod... hmmmm, maybe they sent you the JK wheels?? Lol that would be kind of funny.

[TrialByFire]

Well without hijacking the issue I think the simple fact remains that I have an 8.5" wheel with +25mm offset and do not have the same problem that TrialByFire does. Matt - Let me ask you this tho - if they mistakenly sent him the JK wheels could that be the source of the problem? I know that is unlikely but you never know.

I should emphasize that the scraping only happens with major flex--not under normal loading. We actually solved the problem today by rebalancing with stick-on weights inside the rim and by doing a bit of grinding (1/4"?) on the tie rod. It still looks like it will hold up to the abuse a tie rod sees. Time will tell.

[TrialByFire]

Thought I better update my garage with some pics of the new Fox 2.0 Resi shocks.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/11/DSC06173_1-1.jpg (New Fox 2.0 Pro shocks)

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/10/DSC06165_1-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/11/DSC06174_1-1.jpg

I running them at 200 lbs and the ride is a bit stiff until I get a couple hundred pounds in the back (like tools, camping gear and my spare) then things get smooth as glass.:)

[Omelet]

Congrats on the new shocks! They look great, but I know they ride even better then they look :D What length did you end up going with?

[TrialByFire]

Congrats on the new shocks! They look great, but I know they ride even better then they look :D What length did you end up going with?
I got the 12" extension model.

[TrialByFire]

Rear bumper is almost done. More than 4" of additional clearance!

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/DSC06645-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/DSC06646-1.jpg

We did some major work underneath to provide a rigid mounting structure/skids.

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/DSC06649-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/DSC06647-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/DSC06652-1.jpg

And a new receiver mount.

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/01/DSC06651-1.jpg

[AJeepZJ]

Will you be color matching the bumper? or powder coating black?

[TrialByFire]

I plan on color-matching. The swing-away for the spare will be black.

[Matt]

Oh man that's looking amazing

[LWM]

Nice looking!

[07JeepXK]

Oh yeah man... I wasn't saying that was definitely the root cause for his issue. I'm sure they'll figure it out.

If they accidentally sent him the JK wheels with +10mm instead he would have more clearance in that location and not interfere with the tie rod... hmmmm, maybe they sent you the JK wheels?? Lol that would be kind of funny.

Im sort of confused with this statement. The +10mm JK wheels would stick out farther giving more room for clearance and not interfer with the tire rod. So if thats the case then if the sent him the JK wheels on accident, why would he have clearance issues? Im confused. BTW, spoke to AEV a few years back. What they have posted for Approximate back spacing is incorrect.

[Matt]

???? I don't know, That conversation was a while ago. Maybe a typo.

...but that's what I said, even in my quote that you quoted, the +10 would have more clearance (though I don't remember what that was in comparison to)

[07JeepXK]

I know this might be a long shot but maybe he can take off a wheel, measure the back spacing to ensure they are the XK pintlers, and then somehow convince AEV to swap out his wheels for a set of JK wheels at no cost to him. It couldnt hurt to try and see what they say.

[pjmjr508]

Bumper is looking great

[TrialByFire]

Thanks. The rear bumper worked out great this weekend! A huge improvement!

I would not recommend the Pintlers unless they are the beadlock version. I've torn the bead on two of the five now and had to have them repaired. They just don't hold up to the abuse of rock crawling.

[Holaday07 4.7]

WOW! I guess no problem taking out those rear supports? Looks great man!

[Matt]

Looks like the rear supports were replaced with the tube truss setup..... right?

[TrialByFire]

Looks like the rear supports were replaced with the tube truss setup..... right?
Yep. We cut out the supports. Another change was to move the fuel vapor canister from behind the wheel to up under the tubing structure where the spare had been (still lots of room in there though).

[pjmjr508]

if I see in the pics correct that you are running with out a muffler? or drop pipes to the frame that was put up?

[TrialByFire]

I replaced the stock mufflers with a Series 40 Flowmaster in front of the axle. We had to cut the exhaust pipe off to build the cage and will have it re-routed later.

[Sal-XK]

Wow pretty sweet man!

[Omelet]

Looks Great! Removing the rear impact bars is the only way to go for a high clearance bumper. When and if I ever make one, those bars are coming out. It looks stupid (IMO) with them in and exposed.

That sucks to hear about your wheels! Especially since they are so expensive. They should be able to take some abuse without falling apart!

[AJeepZJ]

Looks Great! Removing the rear impact bars is the only way to go for a high clearance bumper. When and if I ever make one, those bars are coming out. It looks stupid (IMO) with them in and exposed.

That sucks to hear about your wheels! Especially since they are so expensive. They should be able to take some abuse without falling apart!

lmao... ruthless... But yeah, they look out of place if they are exposed. I don't care if they are in, But I would care if they were exposed.

[TrialByFire]

That sucks to hear about your wheels! Especially since they are so expensive. They should be able to take some abuse without falling apart!
The are fine for looks, and for the sand and mud and dirt--but stay out of the rocks. If the beadlock JK version doesn't grind away on the steering links, they would be a lot better protection for the bead and wouldn't peel away.

[Omelet]

So are you planning to get the beadlock ones if they fit? What is the weight difference between the two?

[TrialByFire]

So are you planning to get the beadlock ones if they fit?
I don't think so. I'll probably run these and keep repairing them as long as I can.

[EvilJager]

Could you supply me with a side pic so i can see the angle of the new sliders in the rear? Ive been thinking of doing something with mine ever since i got a new rear bumper and i really dig this idea! Looks great

[stites-xk]

Is that the new version of the super lift or the original one?

[TrialByFire]

Could you supply me with a side pic so i can see the angle of the new sliders in the rear? Ive been thinking of doing something with mine ever since i got a new rear bumper and i really dig this idea! Looks great
I'll try and take some photos this weekend.

[TrialByFire]

Is that the new version of the super lift or the original one?
It's the original one.

[TrialByFire]

Could you supply me with a side pic so i can see the angle of the new sliders in the rear? Ive been thinking of doing something with mine ever since i got a new rear bumper and i really dig this idea! Looks great

Side:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/02/BumperSideView-1.jpg

Rear:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/02/BumperRearView-1.jpg

One of these weeks we'll get the swing-away done and I get the bumpers powdercoated. ;o)

[EvilJager]

Thanks for the pics! I really want to do this now :) hope ya dont mind a copycat

[TrialByFire]

Thanks for the pics! I really want to do this now :) hope ya dont mind a copycat
I don't mind at all. Copy away and suggest improvements!

My next project will be some long arms that eliminate the need for those Superlift drop brackets and tuck up in between the rock sliders and the unibody.

[EvilJager]

Okay when i do it ill shoe ya what i came up with. I know it will be a little different but not 100% on what im doing.


That's going to be awesome! Make sure you do a good write up on that.

[TrialByFire]

Well I finally got the bumpers powdercoated and put back on. All I have left is to remember where I put those backup sensors!

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_0595-1.jpg

https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_0596-1.jpg

[pjmjr508]

One mean looking rig

[Sal-XK]

That thing looks sweet! I like the color you chose for the bumpers man.

[LWM]

Looking forward to seeing that in Moab!

[stites-xk]

That looks sweet!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Omelet]

Oh very nice! That is one sexy beast right there. I will be doing some custom bumper work on mine here soon. Nothing that awesome just some tube and aluminum plate to save weight.

[TrialByFire]

Oh very nice! That is one sexy beast right there. I will be doing some custom bumper work on mine here soon. Nothing that awesome just some tube and aluminum plate to save weight.
Thanks everyone. I'm seriously considering a solid front axle conversion next fall. Just not sure I want to pour that much more money into the beast, but it would be a really awesome crawler then!

[Sal-XK]

Thanks everyone. I'm seriously considering a solid front axle conversion next fall. Just not sure I want to pour that much more money into the beast, but it would be a really awesome crawler then!

This needs to be done!

[stites-xk]

Thanks everyone. I'm seriously considering a solid front axle conversion next fall. Just not sure I want to pour that much more money into the beast, but it would be a really awesome crawler then!

X2 on the sfa

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Matt]

Mind posting some updated pics with your new wheels? IIRC they are 17x8.5 w/-6mm offset which puts them at 4.5" backspace. Wondering if that caused any fitment issues with the tires rubbing the firewall?