will go forward in 4 lo, but will not go in 4 hi

[pjmjr508]

I was wheelin & fully loaded with 7 people I was doing an extrememly muddy v noch uphill at about 40 or so degrees. Search (Happy Jeep) in you tube and you will see me going down this while dry last year, just change to me going up it in rain meanwhile vary muddy.
I blew my passenger rear bead on the tire, and was told that my front wheels were not moving. After winching me to the top and changed my tire. I found that I was not able to go forward in 4 hi. When I put in 4 hi I hear a noise around my front passanger wheel. Maybe cv axel blown. But when I put in 4 lo I am able to go forward but no power to the front wheels.

So had it flat bedded to a friends property. it is sitting there until I can get someone with a flat bed & a truck to take me to get it. its 250 miles plus away.

BTW I will post pic's soon. Next time if its only myself & someone on 40's want to do the trail out of 15 rigs maybe I shouldn't lol

Let me know what you guys think

[Matt]

first thing I would do is visually inspect everything. Make sure you dont have any broken axles or driveshafts.

Then make sure you're taking it out of low properly. Make sure you're in Neutral and if you can, try rolling slowly in neutral (via a hill or something) while you take it out of Lo.

If its coming out of Lo properly, try the other gears of the trans manually, reverse too (rule out a trans issue).

If that doesn't work, drain the tcase fluid and inspect.... then fill with fresh fluid and try again.

[LWM]

I was running Crown King a couple of years ago and lost all power to the front wheels, it ended up being the shift module.

[pjmjr508]

I know I snapped something, just don't know yet.

It's still sitting on a friends farm in OR, will be getting it Sunday. 2 main reasons why haven't got it back yet; Had foot surgery on the 31st on my right foot. Just now I am able to weight on it, money. When they did get on the flat bed I was told that it does appear to have a twisted or snapped axle or cv on the pass side.

This will give you an idea of the section of the trail is like by these 2 videos on youtube.
The first link is of a friends rig that was with us on this trip going down the section that I broke on going up the trail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pItaWDZ-h3U (the spot I broke was about 0:35)
The 2nd is myself going down the trail with the video is from inside of the jeep looking out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2umytLd86v8

I am still trying to get a copy of video of us coming down that thing. It was a blast.

[Sal-XK]

Going up that with 7 people in your jeep is crazy bro it wouldn't surprise me that something broke that's a lot of weight. You came down hard enough to blow you bead so your wheels were probably way up there spinning when it landed that will throw a CV pretty easy. The good news is CV axles are pretty cheap and you can do that your self. I'd be more worried about the TC and any damage to it. You can get a TC used which is probably the best way to go unless you have tons of cash to spend. Let us know what you find bro.

[pjmjr508]

Yes a lot of weight, and yes I am crazy lol I am told that alot. Well the bead I popped was on the passanger rear tire not the front. I am hoping it is just the CV joint, no I do not have a lot of cash, but I bought this to Wheel & will do so. Next time you get to the west coast you need to run some of these trails they are a blast.

Next time doing this trail not as many people & also maybe another line. also next time when there is 15 rigs and myself & 1 other (the one locked & on 40's) are the only ones that will do the trail maybe I shouldn't lol. Either way I had a blast

[Sal-XK]

I'm told I'm crazy all the time, I think most of us on here fit that bill though. A used TC can be found for just a few hundo so if you need one that's the route I would go. The CV's I've looked them up before there pretty cheap just remember there side specific so get the correct one. And by the way bro I would of diffidently followed you up that run and broke my **** right behind you LOL

[pjmjr508]

lol
I think our wives will kill us if we wheel together. but it would be fun lol. I like to push my cars & truck to thier limits.

[Sal-XK]

Ya my wife would flip if I went out with someone crazy me. She would be afraid we would try one upping each other or something and both break are **** in the middle of nowhere. LOL

[pjmjr508]

my wife the feels the same, and lets be real. we would lol.

[Adondo]

I finally saw this thread. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but... I think you broke a front axle shaft. :(

Low range locks the differential center, hence you can move. In high range, the center is unlocked. Even with QDII, you need wheel sensors for the computer's input, and the free spinning axle won't trigger that since the sensor is on the back of the brake rotor, so you won't get a clutch lockup in the differential. And, all the torque is going to a ''dead zone'' with a broken axle, so you don't go anywhere.

[pjmjr508]

that makes complete sense.

I think you talking about the axel half shafts right? If so I was doing a quick search and found these. http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/compare/?R=Endeca.628232192+Endeca.3895046144+Endeca.10598 52288+&B=Tj0wJk5yPUFORCh3cG5fdGxfbmFtZTpCcmFrZXMlNUMlMkMr U3VzcGVuc2lvbislMjYrU3RlZXJpbmcsd3BuX2NhdF9uYW1lOk F4bGVzJTVDJTJDK0RyaXZlc2hhZnQrJTI2KzRXRCx3cG5fc2Nh dF9uYW1lOkF4bGUrQXNzZW1ibGllcyslMjYrU2hhZnRzKQ%3D% 3D

These are what your talking about right? If so any input on which to pick. The part I am confused is why the reman is more expensive than the new, they look the same other than the mileage. If I am missing something please let me hear it.

Also if the cv axels are the weak point, do they make stronger ones so I do not have to worry about this happening again?

[Sal-XK]

I think he is talking about the propeller shaft which is the drive shaft from the TC to the front diff.

[pjmjr508]

Sal I don't think it is that. My right foot is still bandaged up from foot surgery so have not dug into it yet. but have seen this, when in 4 hi & in gear the half shaft spins @ the cv joint from the tc to the cv joint. the shaft on the other side of the joint does not move (this is all on the pass side)

thats my guess right now, once I have walk more then a few steps before popping perkecets like candy I will be able to tear in to see.

[Matt]

You guys need to work on your terminology because these posts are confusing as hell to follow.

You have a transfer case. You then have a front driveshaft that connects the transfer case to the front differential. Then, on each side of the differential you have half shafts (commonly referred to as CVs) that provide power to each front tire.

Broken CVs are common. YOU DO NOT WANT STRONGER CVs!!!! They're cheap and easy to replace. If you strengthen the CVs, you'll break the next weekest link; the differential.

With my previous vehicles I used to carry around a spare CV. Though they were much easier to replace than the XK since they were bolted to the diff.

[Sal-XK]

I think the SM calls the shaft from TC to the front diff the propeller. Then the half shafts\CV shafts from the front diff to the tires. I'm a little confused by
half shaft spins @ the cv joint from the tc to the cv joint this as well. But also keep in mind that the TC operates at a 48\52 split in 4HI and will lock the diff in 4HI if wheel slip is detected. So why does it not move in 4HI but does in 4LO not sure myself we'll just have to wait and see when he can move around again and take a look.

[Matt]

Yes the front driveshaft is referred to as a propeller shaft. To make it even more confusing, I believe our front driveshaft uses a CV joint where it connects to the Tcase. CV = Continuous Velocity. Our front half shafts are made of two CV joints.

So he may be talking about the CV joint on the driveshaft... or so I thought so until he said "left side of the vehicle".

[Sal-XK]

ya lots of parts to break that's what it means to me LOL I try real hard not to land a spinning tire.

[Adondo]

The front end is IFS. (Independent Front Suspension) That means half shafts. The front axle housing is ''short'' with the axle ends angling up and down as needed. You have a set of CV (Constant Velocity) joints in each side. They're basically ball bearings in a set of disks with machined slots. the balls ride in the slots, so the joint can angle itself. They're better than Universal joints, which vibrate bad above a certain angle.

So... you have the differential, the half shafts ending at a CV joint. The outer shaft connects to that and goes to a second CV at the wheel hub. That keeps the wheels vertical when bouncing up and down.

Either a CV joint failed, or you tore out a spline at the wheel hub. You said there was noise at the wheel itself, but it could be telegraphed from something farther in. It needs to come apart to see what failed before any parts ordering gets done.

On edit:

This is one good reason to leave the ESP system on. The computer will keep the torque levels down since it drives by wire. Turning it all off allows high RPM and too much spin, and that's when things break.

[pjmjr508]

Thanks for the info guys.
The brake as far as I can see is on the passenger side CV joint. the shaft on the diff side is spinning but the shaft on the wheel side of the joint is not spinning so that joint is blown. I was just worried that I did something to the TC because it would not go anywhere while in 4 hi but it would go forward in 4 lo. Adondo you provided that answer, and that explains why the shop was not able to drive it with front drive shaft removed. They were trying to isolate out the front diff on an issue I was having before I went wheeling.

I also had it in 4 lo when I broke it. Being in 4 lo it automatically turns off the ESP, I do agree about leaving it on while doing wheeling. I make sure to leave on during driving in snow.

So I will have to replace the half shaft, so answer me this; that the heck is the difference between these ones other then price and different makers?

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/compare/?R=Endeca.499458048+Endeca.928169984+Endeca.358400 000+&B=UE49MjQzNSZWTj00Mjk0OTY2MjQ2KzQyOTQ5NjU1MDcrNDI5 NDk2NzE3MCs0Mjk0OTY2MDA1KzQyOTQ5NjY0MjYmTj0wJk5yPU FORCh3cG5fdGxfbmFtZTpCcmFrZXNcLCtTdXNwZW5zaW9uKyUy NitTdGVlcmluZyx3cG5fY2F0X25hbWU6QXhsZXNcLCtEcml2ZX NoYWZ0KyUyNis0V0Qsd3BuX3NjYXRfbmFtZTpBeGxlK0Fzc2Vt YmxpZXMrJTI2K1NoYWZ0cyx1bml2ZXJzYWw6MCkmcmVmVHlwZT 1DYXRlZ29yeSZyZWZWYWx1ZT1BeGxlK0Fzc2VtYmx5

I did see that the more expensive is a reman & holds a 3 year & 36k warranty, while the cheapest was new. It also looks that the reman was also the ones that they provide half shafts to Napa or at least warranty them.

Your take guys?

I do thank all imput in this & now do plan on carrying a spare for each side when wheelin now.

[Matt]

When you buy a re-manufactured half-shaft you get charged a "core" charge that is reimbursed when you turn in the old axle. The price difference is usually a wash.

If you're ordering online just buy new ones so you dont have to worry about turning the core back in.

[Sal-XK]

First the warranty is better so that's one obvious reason why it's a better half shaft. Sounds like they used better parts in rebuilding it and chased the splines so installing should be easy. If they do actually chase the splines and can get them to you without damage it should be a good product. Let us know what you order and if you get what they say they do. Inspect the splines real good if the shaft slips in and all the holes line up that would be cool for just $77 :)

[Matt]

I believe Rockauto.com has the half shafts for around $50.... It's almost worthwhile to buy them for trail side spares, and just hold on to them until your current ones need to be replaced (they ALL wear eventually)

[pjmjr508]

while I was searching online to price check I came across this for the same axles
http://www.quadratec.com/products/52400_0043.htm

what in the world are they thinking?

these are the same as far as I can tell and with a better warranty and after returning the core it will come out to 66.00. it is also listed with LSD.
https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=NMD958414_0198842066&An=599001+102007+50038+2038051

[pjmjr508]

from the research I just did the NAPA Max Drive was re branded from A1 Cardone the same as the reman we have been looking at. So cheaper & local to my place to pick up & easy to return the core. Had the stitches took out today so maybe by this weekend I will be able to walk enough to R&R that half shaft & then go from there.

Question I have is this;
Normally when you blow a CV joint, does the issue stop there or good chance of other broke items in the TC or any where else in the drive train?

[Matt]

Normally the damage stops there... hence the reason you dont want stronger joints lol

[pjmjr508]

K I can follow that logic. Its shouldn't be that hard to swap them out if needed on the trail.

[Matt]

Well, you have to dislodge the upper balljoint, the tie rod and take off the lower fork bolt (which people often complain about when installing leveilng kits on these vehicles). So its somewhat of a PITA to do trail side... but doable.

I liked my Silverado... take off the axle nut, unbolt the flange at the diff and then slide it right out. 20 minutes tops.

[pjmjr508]

this the trail I broke on
http://youtu.be/yHV-zlK_wcg (view from the outside) Language Warning!

the video is of me going down, it wasn't until I went back up the trail until I broke

[Adondo]

Holy mackerel! That's a serious V notch!!

[pjmjr508]

LOL When I tell people I wheel this they laugh until they see where I go play. This was @ TSF in OR. I can get there in less then 4 hours from my place North of Seattle. It is a blast, you should come out & play. If you look at some of the other videos from the person that uploaded that one you will see his trail blazer that he has got put together & he catches mess like we do with our rigs, also you will see more of thew trails @ this off road park. its a blast, but it is not for the light hearted lol

[Adondo]

Sometimes I think the XK's ''soccer mom'' look is an advantage for having fun. It certainly can embarrass other 4x4's. I've done that more than a few times in ''play'' areas around here. I have youtube of one such place that makes for teetering tires as the ditch-bank-steep hill is ''stair-stepped'' from all the spinning tires of people who can't make it up.

The best ever was a crowd on top of the hill watching a Chevy truck with 44" Monster Mudder tires flinging cubic yards of dirt. He finally made it to the top, but barely, and after three times of backing up to the bottom for another attempt. We then drove up in low range 1st without so much as disturbing the dirt. My only regret was not telling my buddy to snap photos of the slack-jawed crowd. We topped out like it was nothing, then just drove on and left. I even had my arm hanging out the window like I was just leisurely sight-seeing. :)

Another one is called ''Roll Over Hill" in a place called "The Slab" near Zillah Washington. We didn't know what the hill was called at the time; found out later. My buddy took video from the bottom as we went up. You can see the whole roof and hood of the XK because we were rocked back about 30+ degrees. (I gotta get that from Mike so we can youtube it!) A couple of guys in a Toyota 4-Runner were parked at the top, and gave is really funny looks. We didn't just climb it once either, we did it three times as Mike changed camera positions. The second time, we stopped halfway up because I thought he wasn't filming yet, then continued on. I think those guys in the 4-Runner just didn't believe their own eyeballs. :)

[pjmjr508]

love it. I need to come by where you are so you can show me these places. I'm just north of Seattle so it should not take that long to get there.

[pjmjr508]

Holy mackerel! That's a serious V notch!!

BTW not a scratch thru out all the trails I did to the body, now the skids & belly pan completely different story. The belly took a really hard hit from what I saw from being under it last night.

[pjmjr508]

Well, you have to dislodge the upper balljoint, the tie rod and take off the lower fork bolt (which people often complain about when installing leveilng kits on these vehicles). So its somewhat of a PITA to do trail side... but doable.

I liked my Silverado... take off the axle nut, unbolt the flange at the diff and then slide it right out. 20 minutes tops.

after 2 hours I had to call it a night & will go back to it today. this is a royal pain in the rear. I did get a reman half shaft for 44.00 just such a pain to swap out

[Sal-XK]

good luck keep us informed I'm guessing this is a part people like me and you better get use to replacing so take good notes :)

[pjmjr508]

Got married yesterday so was not able to get back to the jeep, but will today as part of my fathers day lol. So far I have the upper ball joint & the strut fork & the swaybar link and the tie rod disconnected & the axle will not come out of the hub, so today will disco the lower ball joint & then should be able to pull out. Man this is a royle pain in my rear

[LWM]

Got married yesterday

Congratulations!

[pjmjr508]

Congratulations!

Thank you.

[Sal-XK]

Congratulations I think J\K

[pjmjr508]

Thanks lol

Well just got the half shaft replacement done and it was a real pain in my a**

Using only hand tools on jack stands.
Had to disco the sway bar link
strut fork
upper ball joint
tierod end
remove the caliper

With all that it took me 2 days (6 to 7 hours) (part of the reason for so long have been on oxycondone from foot surgery.
The snap ring holding the inner cv axle to the diff was a big pain. I ended up having my next door neighborer come over with his cub tractor with a 3k winch on the front. Had to wrap a strap around the cv housing then slowly winched until the snap ring popped. Yes I said a tractor. I will throw up a pic soon.

I don't want to do that again so I am re thinking about upgrading those to be stronger to prevent these from breaking. So here is my question; if I put a stronger part there wht is the next weak link to break?

[Matt]

The diff.

You'd be better off just paying someone to replace the CV as opposed to paying to upgrade the CVs and then paying someone to fix/replace the diff.

Two things help in removing the CV. First... a really long pry bar to get the leverage needed. Second, and you try to pop it out with the pry bar you keep rotating it to find the position where the snap ring drops into the axle and makes it easier to remove.

[07JeepXK]

Hmmm... those CV's pop right out. You shouldn't have needed a tractor to do it. lol

[pjmjr508]

I know I have done several cv joint replacements over the years but this was a royal pain. It would not pop the c clip and release the inside joint.

[pjmjr508]

Ok I know it has been awhile since I have come back to this thread & to close it out with a final report of all that happened to the jeep from this weekend trip in damage;

Passenger side half shaft broken
2 bent rims (Passenger Side)
Dented in rear passenger
Mud everywhere inside & out & the leather is stained from the mud.

I will post a pic of the door as well- It got bent when trying to change out the tire while on the trail from the HI-Lift Jack connected to the 4x sliders.

Maybe you guys can give me your views on this;
About the 2 bent rims, they are the stock chrome clad 17s from the limited/Overland Editions & my question is this
Replace them or attempt to get them fixed?

[Sal-XK]

Do some searching around craigs list ebay and other 4x4 forums for some new used wheels. I think it may even be cost effective to purchase new aftermarket wheels (if you don't go crazy) then to worry about those clad wheels which are a pain to balance anyway aren't they.

[pjmjr508]

Do some searching around craigs list ebay and other 4x4 forums for some new used wheels. I think it may even be cost effective to purchase new aftermarket wheels (if you don't go crazy) then to worry about those clad wheels which are a pain to balance anyway aren't they.

I agree with this, just if I go to replace all my rims then I will want ones where I don't have to continue using spacers & that limits my choices & don't really have the money for that.

if I remember right it will need -.25mm offset for the rimes to go without spacers right?

[Sal-XK]

if I remember right it will need -.25mm offset for the rimes to go without spacers right?

Ya know I've read the answer to this a dozen times but can't remember what it is I thought it was +12 but wait for one of the wheel experts to log on.

[pjmjr508]

I have read it quite a few times as well, just can't remember as well so hopefully one of them will give me the correct info.

[pjmjr508]

If it is the exhaust headers making the ticking, that should be covered by extended warranty, right ? Just wish someone made full headers for the XK & I would just swapp out for that instead.

[Matt]

Offset varies on wheel width. Ideally you want a wheel with 5 to 5.5" backspace.

[pjmjr508]

Offset varies on wheel width. Ideally you want a wheel with 5 to 5.5" backspace.

and this will make it that I do not need to run spacers & can run 265-70/17's with out rubbing?

[Sal-XK]

Offset varies on wheel width. Ideally you want a wheel with 5 to 5.5" backspace.

Wheel sizes still confuse me https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/11/scratchhead02ideaanimatedanimationsmiley-1.gif

[Matt]

and this will make it that I do not need to run spacers & can run 265-70/17's with out rubbing?

The backspace will ensure you don't have an issue with the balljoint. As far as rubbing the fenders you just have to make sure you get a reasonable width wheel.... the wider the wheel the more likely you are to rub. 8-9 inch inch is key on these vehicles.

[Matt]

Lol yeah wheel sizes can be tricky. Like I'm running 4.5" backspace but they're only 8" wide.... in terms of where the outside of the tire sits that would be like running a 9" wide wheel with 5.5" backspace.

To help with fitment its good to target 8" wide with 5" backspace or 8.5" wide with 5.5" backspace.

[pjmjr508]

The backspace will ensure you don't have an issue with the balljoint. As far as rubbing the fenders you just have to make sure you get a reasonable width wheel.... the wider the wheel the more likely you are to rub. 8-9 inch inch is key on these vehicles.

BTW Thanks for your input & it does make sense.
I am running that size tire now & no issues.
If I am not mistaken the OEM ones are 7" width? (I am prob wrong but going off memory ATM)

[Holaday07 4.7]

How did the High Lift f up the door?

[Matt]

BTW Thanks for your input & it does make sense.
I am running that size tire now & no issues.
If I am not mistaken the OEM ones are 7" width? (I am prob wrong but going off memory ATM)

I believe the stock wheels are 7.5" wide with 6" backspace (lol but im not 100% sure on that either. If it wasn't so dark out i'd go and take a look at my stock wheels to be sure). If you're running 1.5" wheel spacers then that's like running a 7.5" wide wheel with 4.5" backspace.

I like talking in terms of "backspace" because its easy to visualize where the wheel actually sits. The backspace is the distance that the inside edge of the wheel sits from the hub. So if you take the Width - Backspace, you then know how far out the wheel sits from the hub as well and its easy to compare wheel vs wheel.

For example, my aftermarket 8" wide wheels with 4.5" backspace have the same "inner" clearance as your stock wheels with 1.5" spacers because they have the same equivalent backspace. BUT, the outer edge of your wheel is 3" from the hub (7.5-4.5) whereas my outer edge is 3.5" from the hub (8-4.5); so my wheels stick out 1/2" further than yours.

If you want a wheel that sits the same distance out as your current setup (stock 7.5" with 1.5" spacers) then you'd want an 8" wheel with 5" backspace since 8-5=3".

[Sal-XK]

How did the High Lift f up the door?

What he said!

[pjmjr508]

How did the High Lift f up the door?


What he said!

Not sure if it slid out of the notch on the bottom of the sliders or if the jeep shifted while in the air, but the jack ended pressing in a crease in the door. I will take a pic & show the aftermath. It was the first time I had used the jack with the sliders & it was in the mud while raining on trail side. Body shop said it's 700 to repair. Not high priority at the moment.