View Full Version : Custom Roof Rack Mounts
Started discussing this in the Home Grown Solutions (http://www.xk-forum.com/showthread.php/908-Home-Grown-Solutions?p=12210#post12210) thread and figured i'd start my own so that doesn't get taken over with my posts.
Basically, I hate how the OEM cross rails are so high above the roof. When mounting cargo baskets up there on top of them it makes the basket look too "detached" from the vehicle... and in Sal's case, he had to drop his down to get in his garage.
What I've decided to do is make my own cross tail stantions out of 6061 Aluminum. Below is a quick 2 minute sketch I made to just get an idea of where I wanted to go with it.
https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png
Next step is to start modeling the concept. Once I have a working 3D model I can start thinking about other ideas such as making it lockable. I have a few ideas for that... but I also like keeping it simple. In the end, I'll determine my "locking" method based on which roof rack I end up getting and how I attach the rack to the cross rails. That's another thread though :p
UPDATE:
CLICK HERE TO JUMP TO POST #51 (http://www.xk-forum.com/showthread.php/972-Custom-Roof-Cross-Rail-Mounts?p=13121&viewfull=1#post13121) <---- Starting to make my stanchions here
This morning I was able to escape from my [almost] 2 year old to grab some quick measurements. So i started my model with the factory rails... which, btw, are a PITA to measure. Especially since I couldnt find my protractor and I left my micrometer at work. So with some fancy level and scale work, plus some basic geometry, i think I got them pretty close (close enough to at least work on the design anyway).
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/RoofRail-1.jpg
Doc in AZ
07-24-2011, 09:34 AM
Wow, and I thought I over engineered stuff. If you have access to a mill and can make that then you should be able to make something that flows with the rig better than a block and square tube. If you are going to pay a shop to build it you might find something off the shelf that is more cost effective. My rates for machine work are $ 125 an hour, those blocks would cost more than the rack its self. And if you have a decent roof rack you wont need cross bars, it can go directly to the stanchion and you can keep the profile even lower... jmho
Holaday07 4.7
07-24-2011, 10:01 AM
Wow, I just wing stuff, that looks great man.
I have my own lathe/mill/drill machine and a pretty good supply of tools in my shop.. I also have access to a pretty solid machine shop where I help high school kids build robots to compete in competitions. So i'm well covered there; just need to buy the material and find the time.
I was actually thinking about mounting the roof rack directly to the stanchions, but the rack would have to be about 52" at the front stanchion and 49.5" at the rear stanchions and it gets a bit more complicated.
Also, by making these "low pro" stanchions for my Thule load bars, I have some more options down the road if I ever take this rack off (not sure why the hell id ever do such a thing though..)
Man... but now my mind is working a million miles a minute now... I bet you could easily weld on 6 mounting tabs that would simply bolt to thru bolt with my stanchions (like the load bars would) and eliminate the need for the load bars altogether. They would have to be gusseted pretty good in the fronts since a 48" wide rack would be cantilevered on the front 4 mounts... it'll rest right on the rear two.
Doc, a quick question. When we say "48 inches wide", is that 48" to the outside of the tube? Or is that 48" on-center (which would make the outside dimension a total of 49" if you're using 1" tube)? That'll help me determine what kind of interference I'll have with the rear most mounts...
Ok guys... just put my son down for a nap so I have a few more minutes to work on this.
I just took a few more quick measurements because the top of the roof line is very important. So I threw a profile in there to simulate the height of the roof in relation to the rack. Obviously the roof profile is not that drastic, i'm trying to keep the model compressed so its easier to visualize... the max roof height is obviously more than 3" away from the rails.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/RoofRailwithRoof-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/RoofRailwithRoof2-1.jpg
Next up is a quick & dirty of the cheapest/easiest load bar mounting idea.
Ok haven't had as much time as I thought.... while my son is napping great, my 3 week old daughter has decided to give her lungs a workout this afternoon.
I didn't have time to mess around with the rendering to make it look a bit more "realistic" either. I tried a few quick presets but it made the surfaces way too reflective and even a bit harder to see what was going on.
Also did not put the lower clamping plate on or the nut. I figure this gets the point across enough... i'd make a lower clamping plate out of 1/8" thick steel and put a good nut/washer on it and probably call it good. Still debating whether I want to put a 0.1" platform on the one side of that plate so that the washer and nut sit a bit more flush. That's something I can figure out later though and will be pretty consistent regardless of which design i go with. As I started measuring and modeling I came up with some "better" designs... but "better" also means more $$ in materials and almost twice as much machining. As it sits now, I can probably make all 6 of these mounts for about $100 in materials (that includes bolts and hardware).
After I get my rack and see how the rack will mount to the crossbars, I even have the ability to cut down the groove where the load bar sits to bring it a bit closer. Although, as it sits right now, there'll be a little more than 1/2" clearance with the very top of the roof.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Assembly2InchIso-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Assembly2InchFront-1.jpg
Quick note....
While driving to my parents house to take the kids swimming I was thinking about Docs suggestion to mount directly to my stanchions..... I like it. The front most mounts will have the mounting bolts only about 2-2.5" away from the edge of the rack, and with my stanchion design there really wont be much cantilever action at all. If anything the problem would be with the rear most mounts if the edge of the rack interferes with the bolt head... but the bolts might end up being just off the edge of the rack.
When we get home tonight I'm going to make a quick model of what I think would need to be welded on the rack. Basically just 6 L-brackets that are 2" wide and have some gussets for stability.
I'll be shooting these to Doc in an Email in a few minutes... but if he can weld 6 brackets like this onto the rack (or something similar that he thinks would do the job) then this may be the best idea for a nice clean & custom rack setup.
For the model I used rough dimensions for the front-most mounts. Here, the center of the cross rails are roughly 52" apart. So with a 48" wide rack the bolt would be about 2" from the edge.
I'm happy I modeled this... with my custom stanchions the rack will be plenty supported. The middle and rear mounts will be almost completely supported on the stanchions as well since the rails taper as you get further back.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/AssemblyRackDirect-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/AssemblyRackDirectFront-1.jpg
IamJEEP
07-24-2011, 06:12 PM
I like this kind of thinkng! Awesome work, Matt.......I was actually going to do something similar when i make a custom rack. Why make a rack when I allready have one, you ask? Well, for the fun of it. I like projects like this, just don't have the skills you have will the cad drawings. Keep it up, im subscribed.
cico7
07-24-2011, 06:50 PM
Nice job drafting, or whatever you want to call it...CAD? Looks good on paper.
Ok back to the task at hand.... Good chance I'll still have to use my Thule load bars for the time being (although I love the direct mount idea). Here's another concept that i like for a few reasons:
1) Doubles the mounting bolts = stronger and a lot more work to remove
2) Wider foot print for the mounts
3) Don't need to drill hole through load bar = easier adjustments
Downside is about double the cost (due to material scrap mostly... can order in 1' or 3' sections and only need a 20" section to make 6 mounts). But then again i'm sure I'll have a few prototype pieces anyway... so even if i go with the 2" mounts I'll probably want to get the 3' material regardless for mistakes and modifications to the design.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Assembly3InchIso-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Assembly3Inch-1.jpg
Doc in AZ
07-24-2011, 10:06 PM
Dude, you have to get away from square stuff. I make roof racks from round tube for a reason... drag coefficient. Make it a little smoother, trust me, you will see a Los in MPG try to minimize it... and make it appealing not just functional. And roof racks come in any size you want and even in irregular shapes.
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.110137412353127.8907.108891915811010&type=1
Doc, its all squared off for concept only. Once I chose a design I will then modify it for aerodynamics and aesthetics. There's no point in spending another 20-30 minutes on each model to make it look pretty. :)
Edit: and what do you think about the welded bracket idea? I was actually thinking that if I had you make those brackets then I could even forego making tall stanchions since the brackets would just need to extend about 3/4" below the bottom of the rack. Then I'd just machine some platforms out of steel to give the rack a level surface instead of the angled rail. Ill draw that up tonight after my bike ride.
CmmdrDan
07-25-2011, 05:22 AM
Ok back to the task at hand.... Good chance I'll still have to use my Thule load bars for the time being (although I love the direct mount idea). Here's another concept that i like for a few reasons:
1) Doubles the mounting bolts = stronger and a lot more work to remove
2) Wider foot print for the mounts
3) Don't need to drill hole through load bar = easier adjustments
Downside is about double the cost (due to material scrap mostly... can order in 1' or 3' sections and only need a 20" section to make 6 mounts). But then again i'm sure I'll have a few prototype pieces anyway... so even if i go with the 2" mounts I'll probably want to get the 3' material regardless for mistakes and modifications to the design.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Assembly3InchIso-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Assembly3Inch-1.jpg
I dont think I'd do it this way. Would want a bolt through the rail so it doesn't slide back and forth. Unless you put a small weld or something.
Dan, it wouldn't be able to slide back and forth. Every Thule setup you can buy uses clamping force to retain the bars.... and I can far exceed the clamp force of every Thule mount I've used with the 2 3/8" bolts, so I'm positive there's enough there to hold it in place.
CmmdrDan
07-25-2011, 06:51 AM
I forgot you were the engineer. Carry on!
LMAO that doesn't mean I'm perfect or that I know everything. As a matter of fact, being that I've worked both blue collar and white collar I can tell you that the best ideas I've heard for stuff like this usually come from the "shop" guys. And some of the dumbest ideas and designs I've ever heard have come from engineers who had a great GPA in college. So please, don't ever hesitate to question something I post.... there's a reason engineers work in "teams", the best solutions are seldom self derived.
Hence, this isn't a "how to" thread. I'm open to all suggestions / ideas / comments / etc because they will help improve the design.
IamJEEP
07-25-2011, 07:34 AM
I agree with doc about the squareness( is that a word lol) of the design but, if you look at the oem uprights...........they are not what I would call, aero.
Remember, these are some concepts and I had minimal time to model. The "squareness" is just a time saver for modeling.... I'm focusing in the attachment method right now. Once I hammer down the method I'm going with ill tweak the design for aerodynamics and aesthetics.
Ok so this is my absolute favorite method.... I'd just need to make some (what i'd call) adapter plates to convert the strangely angled roof rails to a nice flat surface. Then, with the brackets extending about 1" below Doc's rack I'll have about 1/2" roof clearance (that I could increase or decrease by making some new adapters which would be relatively cheap and easy to machine).
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/AssemblyRackDirect2-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/AssemblyRackDirect2Front-1.jpg
Just need to hear from Doc on his thoughts about this idea and to work on a quick quote to see if its a path I can afford to pursue. If it looks good, we'll work on some more of the details such as actual dimensions and locations of the mounts.
Edit: And if I do go with this method, I'll be using socket head cap screws. That will help resolve any issues with bolt head (and tool) clearance with the rear mounts and look cleaner from ground level. Also makes it a little harder for someone to randomly remove since its a large hex size. May even look into some tamper resistant bolts...
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Hex_socket_head_cap_screw-1.jpg
Hmmmm... some tamper resistant button head would really fit the bill and look even cleaner from ground level.
Pretty sure I'll be going a route similar to this with my bolts regardless of which installation method I go with :cool:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/41kRdt1rHvL-1.jpg
Here's the direction im going with the load bar mounts.
I really like the double bolt clamp setup. Im working on some ideas to make the bolts hidden, but without killing myself with the machining. If only I could use the CNC's at work!!! Then i'd make a nice "top" section that would be curved and have the bolts countersunk completely out of view... (still might go for something like that, just have to figure out how it'll go together within my home-workshop machine capabilities and without taking a day per mount).
SIDE NOTE: Not bad work considering i did these 1 handed (got a passed out infant on my left shoulder).
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Assembly3InchIso2-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Assembly3InchFront2-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Assembly3InchTop2-1.jpg
The new deck that I have on my Commander bolted directly too the legs attached to the rails, I do not have cross bars anymore.
Wooot... put the kids to bed nice and early and was able to get some work done.
I think i'm getting close to a workable design :)
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Enclosed1-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Enclosed2-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Enclosed3-1.jpg
Note that I offset the bolts a bit to the exterior of the vehicle. That's to clear a 48" wide rack at the rear-most mounts. The rack will almost touch the top clamping plate.
Doc in AZ
07-25-2011, 08:35 PM
Why don't you quit screwing around and build the darn thing already! I honestly don't have plans for anything I build except a couple bumpers that are production items. I just start making it, then if I like it I reverse engineer it.
Because I don't have a building full of material stock to play around with.
One of the benefits of 3D modeling. I change the design hundreds of times and not spend a penny :)
Doc in AZ
07-25-2011, 08:57 PM
That's what I would miss most if I sold my shop ... all the "drop" I have to play with
pjmjr508
07-27-2011, 02:59 PM
Matt this was a quote from the other thread that got my attention and why I was so many questions on about doing it to my rack now.
"Then I would just machine those mounts that I'm developing to clamp around those 1" diameter bars and completely eliminate the need for load bars. The rack can't get much more low pro than that...... "
Post 28 on the other thread.
My roof rack does not have a mesh or floor cover so that idea would work for me to bring the roof rack lower to the jeep roof & do away from load or cross bars & attach the roof rack to roof rails on the roof of the jeep
I think you misunderstood what I meant.
By having Doc make my roof rack, i'm hoping he can have 3 of the crossbars used as the floor extend a few inches out on each side. These would effectively work as load bars and would be clamped directly in my mounts.
These images should help:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/DocRackDirect-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/DocRackDirectCloseup-1.jpg
IamJEEP
07-27-2011, 05:13 PM
I like your latest renderings. I have a question tho....those extended bars that you are clamping to..... only the weld would be holding the weight of the rack and its contents. Wouldn't that be a weak spot for failure?
Yes it would be. But with 6 mounts, 1" diameter steel, some skilled welding and a few reinforcement plates it shouldn't be an issue.
It's funny you mention that... because if Doc likes that and I decide to go that route I was planning on running an FEA to see what the stress would be at those joints with ~400lb (more than i'll ever load) on the rack to ensure the weld and whatever reinforcement we put there is adequate.
....or..... don't use a weld for the "support" at all. There's no rule saying that we couldn't put some bends in the lower perimeter bar. It would just shorten the overall length a bit. But we could have those "support" bars be one solid piece and the perimeter bar bend over it and then welded in place. .... maybe
IamJEEP
07-27-2011, 05:42 PM
I think with gussets and a little "beefiness" at the joint, you would be fine. Your bend idea would work but just adds to the complicity of the design
Put 70lbs at the center of each crossbar (so almost 500lbs worth) and constrained the model by the very ends of the mounting bars to maximize the moment arm. We're talking about max stresses under 2ksi. So yeah, i wouldn't be concerned at all going with this method. Technically wouldn't even need any extra "beefiness"... but im a mass overkill kind of guy so I'd still like to see something there.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/DirectFEA-1.jpg
Edit:
But it would be best if those built in "load bars" are solid and the "perimeter" bar is cut and welded to each side of it. That way there would be more weld and it would be distributed around the sides with the lower stresses.
I would not want just a 4" long piece welded on to the exterior of the perimeter bar.
IamJEEP
07-27-2011, 06:31 PM
Thats a cool tool you have there.
Is it possible for you to share the dimensions of he final product for others to home fab? With all the work you are putting into this, i would totally understand if you don't want to disclose that info.
Yeah man, i can turn pretty much make any of these into 2D drawings without much trouble.
Are you looking for dimensions of the mounts or the rack I modeled?
The rack was just kind of thrown together... I'm planning on having Doc "do his thing" in terms of how he wants to build the rack. I just made that model to help visualize some of the mounting ideas I had (like the most recent one I posted incorporating the crossbars)
IamJEEP
07-27-2011, 06:57 PM
The rack, those mounts will be a bit much for a home fab with standard tools. Alltho, you can probably make an extra set and sell it on here. Put a little change in your pocket.
Sure. It's pretty standard though... pretty much made it 4'x6' (tapered the rear back to 46"), then adjusted the size of the top until the angles of the front and rear looked appealing.
pjmjr508
07-27-2011, 07:10 PM
I took another look at the roof rails in relation to what I wanted to do, and realize that they are not close enough width wise to forgo the cross bars & attach the rack directly to the roof rails. so the unitstock will have to work to lower. great model of what you want to have made.
Here's a side view. Rack height was 6" OC and the angle for the front was around 37 degrees and the rear was 70 degrees.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/Side-1.jpg
lol if i had a a tube bender, welder and some welding skills i'd probably be out there making it.
pjmjr508
07-27-2011, 07:14 PM
looks great. will be nice to see once you have it made & attached.
IamJEEP
07-28-2011, 03:42 AM
Sure. It's pretty standard though... pretty much made it 4'x6' (tapered the rear back to 46"), then adjusted the size of the top until the angles of the front and rear looked appealing.
Thank you, can't wait to see this actually made. This is going to be a nice rack, now just add some attachment tabs. LOL...
Doc in AZ
07-28-2011, 04:47 PM
I'll tell you anything you want to know about the rack, but you'll have to spend a minimum of about $ 600 to get a decent Bender and tooling to get started. And I'll say it again, youare putting wayyyyyyyyy too much effort into the rack design.
And I've got to say this is my favorite quote
Thats a cool tool you have there...
Doc, make no mistake... you're building me a rack!
Working on some of those mounts you talked about now to get an idea if I can machine them without spending big coin on some fancy bits.
Edit: and im only putting as much effort in as I want to. Some people watch a lot of TV, others my age play hours upon hours of video games..... me? well, i like designing/fixing/solving/etc. This is my hobby.
IamJEEP
07-28-2011, 05:03 PM
I'll tell you anything you want to know about the rack, but you'll have to spend a minimum of about $ 600 to get a decent Bender and tooling to get started. And I'll say it again, youare putting wayyyyyyyyy too much effort into the rack design.
And I've got to say this is my favorite quote
Why thank you sir......this won't be the first time i have been quoted...LOL
Sal-XK
07-28-2011, 05:10 PM
Why thank you sir......this won't be the first time i have been quoted...LOL
Well, you have to be good at something LOL
IamJEEP
07-28-2011, 05:18 PM
Well, you have to be good at something LOL
LOL, that's right!
Newest concept.
Would require that the rack width follow width of the OEM rails (within reason). Not sure if this is exactly what Doc was envisioning.... but when he recommended making a mount that the rack would sit on and clamp directly to, this is what I pictured.
Still needs a few tweaks......... and i'd incorporate some spherical washers to account for the angle created by the clamp (spherical washers may also be a good solution for the clamping plate beneath the roof rail)
This one just shows how the edge of the rack would have to follow the roof rail line (so the rack would taper towards the rear just like the roof)
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/ClampRAILLINE-1.jpg
Front view just showing the position. I'd probably make the clamping slot a bit wider to account for variations in width. For ease of assembly, i simply aligned the axis of the roof rack tube and the axis of the radius in the clamp. Obviously, they will not match up perfectly like that on the real thing.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/ClampFRONT-1.jpg
And two projections to get an idea of what they'd look like... Still needs a few aesthetic tweaks... but this gets the point across.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/ClampISO-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/07/ClampINNER-1.jpg
I was talking to one of my buddies who works at a machine shop and he said it really wouldn't be too much trouble to get some CNC machine time, especially since I can do all of the design and just transfer the model file to the machine to do the work.
So..... I'm simplifying it for the time being. I'm going to make the basic style clamp mount (shown below). I'm also going to use a square u-bolt with tri-groove nuts on top to make it a bit more theft "resistant". This isn't shown in the model....
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/Decision-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/TriGroove-1.jpg
Then, once i have my roof rack on I can take my time and really make some cool mounts for it to eliminate the crossbars.
Materials here. Debating whether or not to downsize the U-bolt size.... But I like the 3/8-16 thread and tri-groove nut size. We'll see how the first test piece comes out...
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110808195327-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110808195856-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110808195426-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110808195528-1.jpg
Got the rest of the material... 1.5" bars. 1/8" thick for the top clamp and 3/16" thick for the lower clamp. Also got 70A durometer fiberglass reinforced silicone rubber for the lower clamp (the red stuff) and 60A durometer EPDM rubber for the interface between the stanchions and the stock roof rails. Both rubber strips are 2" wide, 1/16" thick and have an adhesive backing.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110811190414-1.jpg
Plan on getting to work tomorrow.... i'd like to have my cross bars mounted up by Saturday afternoon. Hopefully our 2" cutter comes in for the mill tomorrow!!
cico7
08-12-2011, 02:22 AM
matt, where did you find your U bolts and tri groove nuts? is that something fasten-all would carry?
there is a fasten-all place not far from me.
Yeah, fastenall would have them. I ordered from mcmaster
Just made the lower clamp prototype... worked like a charm!
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110812165222-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110812165255-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110812165427-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110812165639-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110812165717-1.jpg
pjmjr508
08-12-2011, 03:10 PM
I really like the mout so far
Thanks!!
Done working for the night... just put my son to bed so I can't use the compressor/grinder. I have 3 of the lower clamps sprayed with primer and the other 3 are still in "manufacturing" (just need to cut the notches and clean up the edges, then primer).
I think I'm just going to do everything, including the stanchions, in white primer and see how it looks. Since i'm doing 6 mounts i'll be able to take 2 off at a time and paint them black if I want.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110812180201-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110812185114-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110812193350-1.jpg
CmmdrDan
08-12-2011, 06:39 PM
Looks good. If these come out well would you be interested in make more? Ill pay..
That sure wouldn't be out of the question....
Lets see how the machining goes tomorrow. Those lower clamps took me a lot longer to make than expected and I broke some drill bits when they caught (and smashed my ribs), but they'd be easier to drill if i was over my friends using his drill press; but im just too inpatient.
IamJEEP
08-12-2011, 06:58 PM
Looking good bro, cant wait to see it finished.
Just finished off 3 of the lower clamps.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110813074454-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110813074504-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110813074510-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110813074518-1.jpg
Not done yet!
Today was a long day.... long story short, my buddies mill is missing a gear, so the feed rate is set up for cutting steel (sloooooow). I tried making the first mount by hand but that was just too tedious. So i used the slow feed and tried getting other stuff done. Also don't have a shank for a 1.25" cutter... and no way in hell am i cutting all of these with a 1/2". So i'm going to try a contingency plan tomorrow, but not feeling optimistic right now. lol i just need a few good beers and a good night of sleep, then start strong tomorrow.
Getting there... just need to shape some clamps for the bars now. Need to get some 1/16" steel. The 1/8" stuff is just too thick to get the shape I need.
Some in process shots
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110814094535-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110813111202-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110813114630-1.jpg
Ok here's another update of where im at and how the plans have changed.
I have right around .75" clearance with how the stanchions are designed... i'm going to leave it there since its nice and close to the roof line.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815172827-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815172835-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815172846-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815172924-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815173023-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815173132-1.jpg
Here are a few pictures to show how the overall design works. I threw in some parts for the last few pics to give everyone a visual. The bent steel shows how the lower clamp will conform to the angle of the underside of the roof rails which are at a different angle than the top of the roof rail.
I didn't make the "top" pieces yet, so I just used another lower clamp on top to hold a section of a Thule load bar. Right now i'm going with 1 of 2 options:
1: Bend some 1/16" steel into a "top hat" shape that'll be used to clamp the load bar to the stanchion (going to be a PITA due to the small lengths.. and my shop is basically auto tools, not metal working)
2: Looked at the unistrut like Sal used. Turns out that the 1-5/8" wide x 13/16" tall would work out perfectly (see last picture). Due to the U-bolt width, all i would need is some 3/8" ID x 3/4" OD standoffs that are 7/8" tall for a "perfect" fit (all off the shelf hardware). With that, i'd put 1/16" rubber above and below the unistrut which would result in 1/16" compression (which is plenty with a 60A durometer rubber) to lock everything in place. Only issue with going this route is that it's expensive compared to the alternative since I already have the Thule bars and 1/16" steel bar. BUT, with the strut channel I can get some vibration damping 304 stainless bar clamps to mount the rack with... which is an ideal setup in my eyes. So we'll see...
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815173200-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815173451-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815173501-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815181623-1.jpg
pjmjr508
08-15-2011, 04:02 PM
Looking really good.
Thanks!
Here's what the vibration dampening mounts look like. I think they'll do a great job securing the rack and not loosen up much over time. They're about $5 each for 304 Stainless.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/clamp-1.png
CmmdrDan
08-15-2011, 07:32 PM
Ill be waiting for the kit release and pricing when finished.
Well, everything is basically off the shelf (using the strut channel system) except for the stanchions and the clamping plates. You can make the clamping plates if you have a drill and a grinder.
If you seriously want a set of the stanchions machined, PM me. But I'll forewarn you, the material needed for a set of 6 is $60 (after taxes and shipping).. and, unfortunately, it's A LOT more machine time than I had originally expected. So basically, considering that the material cost is $60 itself, are you still interested in a set?
I've been ordering and buying a lot of stuff since this weekend trying to get this project finished... so im not exactly sure what a "complete" set of everything would cost. But a quick estimate in my head would be close to $350 in materials for EVERYTHING. If you compare it to other rack systems, thats not bad... That's material for it all:
U-Bolts
Tri-Groove Nuts
Tri-Goove Nut Socket
3/16" Steel plate for lower clamps
1/8" Steel plate for upper clamps
12" long 3" Round 6061 Al for stanchions
1-5/8 x 13/16 Unistrut Channels (x3)
3/8" ID x 3/4" OD x 7/8" Tall standoffs
EPDM Rubber
Fiber reinforced silicone rubber
Primer
Paint
Vibration Dampening mounts (x6)
Strut channel end caps
... not sure if I missed anything.... that's it off the top of my head
Painting the parts I have now... just need to make the top clamps tomorrow after work (shouldnt take long).
Smoothed out the edges and cleaned up for primer:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110816173117-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110816173122-1.jpg
A few coats of primer
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110816184241-1.jpg
Just started my top coat... I'm going with a special gloss "hammered" look. I tested it out on one of my lower clamps and really like it. Makes the parts look a bit more rugged
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110816184435-1.jpg
Sal-XK
08-16-2011, 05:07 PM
Looking awesome man
Here are some shots of the final topcoat. Due to the high gloss and non-flat surface, it was really hard to get a picture showing what they look like. lol my garage lights didn't help the case either!!!
But in any case:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110816200158-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110816200051-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110816200112-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110816200140-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110816200127-1.jpg
CmmdrDan
08-17-2011, 05:27 AM
Looks awesome Matt. If only I had time and resources. I still need to get around to ordering the front diff bushings and getting them in.
I screwed up the clear coat last night so I need to sand them down a bit and toss a new coat of paint on.
The clear also takes away from the textured look, so I'm a bit torn on if I want to reapply the clear or if I should just use the hammered spray and leave it at that.
IamJEEP
08-17-2011, 08:24 AM
I did a gas tank in one of my bugs back in the day with that exact spray. I didn't clear coat it and it lasted, of course it wasn;t in the rain but it was in the humidity.
I say no clear and see what happens, you could always sand down and respray.
Holaday07 4.7
08-17-2011, 09:42 AM
Have the same paint on my outdoor lighting to cover up some Ugly Brass. Made it all winter here in Missouri, and direct sunlight and rain for the summer. No fadeing or chipping if this helps at all.
Thanks for the heads up guys. Ill probably clean them up and give them a respray tonight and forego the clear. They're easy enough to take off and refresh every other year if I need to. If it turns out to be a recurring issue I can always have them anodized.... But doubt ill have that issue
Ok got a bunch done...
I cleaned up the mounts and recoated them... but kind of did a "hurry up" job so they still didn't come out as good as i want. After i make the 2 other mounts I'll just put them in a rotation and completely refinish all of them, right now i just want to get that rack up there!
My strut channel and parts came today. I ordered the black powdercoated channels and still sprayed them with the hammered paint just so everything matches. Also put the silicon rubber on the lower mounts, painted the spacers, made the to mounts and painted them last (they're still hanging in the garage drying).
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110817193518-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110817202636-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110817202153-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110817202203-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110817202340-1.jpg
I'm also very pleased with the vibration damping mounts. Being 304 stainless, i may just leave them bare.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110817202345-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110817202409-1.jpg
IamJEEP
08-17-2011, 07:06 PM
Bro, stop Martha Stewerting that chit and get it installed allready!!!!!
LOL, looking pimp.
lol. im hoping to get it on tomorrow after work... and after i replace a friends front hub assembly.
pjmjr508
08-17-2011, 10:34 PM
That is very good looking can't wait to see it installed.
Holaday07 4.7
08-18-2011, 05:30 AM
I am very jealous. Looks great, I cant wait to see it all mounted
pjmjr508
08-18-2011, 08:11 AM
Since you have the same rack I have been watching this thread intently, depending on how much of the cost (& if you want to as well) I would have you make a set for me. Also I will say this, doing 3 bars for support is a great idea.
From setup to cleanup its about 10-12 hours of work to make a set. Material for a set of 6 costs between $50-60 after tax and shipping. I'm a busy guy with 2 kids at home and a lot of other projects/hobbies. So, although I would be happy to make a set for you, I'm not sure if they're worth as much to you as a full day of work is to me. If I could knock them out in 1-2 hours total it'd be a no brainer, I'd probably ask for $150 for a set of 6 (that's about $70 profit after material and shipping them) and knock them out one morning before lunch. But being that if I start at 9am and wont finish till the evening.... hell even if I only ask for $30/HR that puts it at a good $350/set which I doubt anyone is willing to spend.
If enough people want a set I can try getting a quote from a local machine shop (they'd knock them out a lot quicker on a CNC). Although I'd guess it'd still be $200-$300 for a set, at least they'll be precision machined (so more bang for your buck ).
pjmjr508
08-18-2011, 08:41 AM
I fully understand and agree. With it taking so much of your time, it is not fessable.
Lol it got to the point after I made the first 2 (not complete though) where I almost just scrapped the idea. That's when I modified the design to eliminate the milled channel for the bar to sit in just to make it worth finishing.
pjmjr508
08-18-2011, 08:59 AM
LOL
Sal-XK
08-18-2011, 01:38 PM
I moved your conversation over here :)
Putting the mounts on:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818175229-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818175953-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818183253-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818182256-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818182248-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818182236-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818183303-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818185523-1.jpg
And the rack!!!
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818191554-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818191534-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818191601-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818190807-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818190708-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818190855-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818190819-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818190745-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818191753-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110818191815-1.jpg
Sal-XK
08-18-2011, 05:47 PM
They might not be cheap man but that's the best mount I've seen for the XK.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/good_job_blue_ribbon-1.png
Thanks https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png
I'm still a bit angry with how i screwed up the finish of those mounts. I didnt get the surfaces completely flat/smooth for the re-paint, as you can see in a few pics. So when i make the last two mounts im going to put them on and take two off, then do a good job resurfacing and painting them, then continue the cycle until they're ALL painted correctly. Then i'll have 6 mounts and be good to go https://theultimatejeep.com/notfound.png
Oh yeah.... once I get all the mounts on I plan on using some blue locktite to help keep those tri-groove nuts in place and then spraying the nuts/washers with a quick coat of the black paint so they blend in a bit better
Holaday07 4.7
08-19-2011, 05:30 AM
That looks great. Does everything fit in the Garage still? Awesome Job!
lol i'm going to test fit the garage today after my son is done eating breakfast... also going to try moving the rack back a few inches.
I should fit in the garage. I measured about 8" of clearance and the top of the rack is about 6.5" above the roof.
Holaday07 4.7
08-19-2011, 06:02 AM
Its going to be close when it snows! Changes the way the whole Jeep looks, and in a good way
pjmjr508
08-19-2011, 09:13 AM
That is really clean, I like how close it is to the roof line & those mounts are great.
About 2" clearance for the garage:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110819104702-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110819104953-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110819104856-1.jpg
Repositioned.... moved it back about 2" and now its 1" away from the hatch opening:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110819123707-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110819123717-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110819123627-1.jpg
pjmjr508
08-19-2011, 10:24 AM
Nice
IamJEEP
08-19-2011, 12:10 PM
I think you should widen your rack, It'll look ten times better from the front/rear. $0.02
IamJEEP
08-19-2011, 12:23 PM
widen what track?
Width of the rack........to fill in the roof a bit more. Know what i mean?
Noooooo. I specifically cut the rails so they'd only stick out 1" from each mount. I hate when people leave extra rack on and it sticks out 6" on each side. To me, it looks horrible and makes me wonder if those people were just lazy and didn't cut the rails to size like they're supposed to.
Sal-XK
08-19-2011, 12:30 PM
Hey man looking good I kinda like the contrast between the bolts and the black paint. Especially since you have the chrome roof rails.
Hey man looking good I kinda like the contrast between the bolts and the black paint. Especially since you have the chrome roof rails.
lol i actually just painted them. I wanted the mounts and rails to be a uniform color... especially since most people don't know what tri-groove nuts are, it makes them look like special caps. I also plan on getting some rubber caps for the extra thread sticking up.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110819153318-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110819153327-1.jpg
IamJEEP
08-19-2011, 12:49 PM
Noooooo. I specifically cut the rails so they'd only stick out 1" from each mount. I hate when people leave extra rack on and it sticks out 6" on each side. To me, it looks horrible and makes me wonder if those people were just lazy and didn't cut the rails to size like they're supposed to.
LMCAO!! No bro, I'm talking about the rack/cargo basket not the rails.
I like the screw heads black, nice touch.
Edit: I just realized I posted in this thread instead of your actual roof rack thread. LOL, you have like 4 or 5 threads on just your roof mod......LOL!
Sal-XK
08-19-2011, 12:59 PM
I also plan on getting some rubber caps for the extra thread sticking up.
I was wondering what you were going to do there.
LMCAO!! No bro, I'm talking about the rack/cargo basket not the rails.
I like the screw heads black, nice touch.
Edit: I just realized I posted in this thread instead of your actual roof rack thread. LOL, you have like 4 or 5 threads on just your roof mod......LOL!
Caleb, the adults are talking LMAO I crack myself up. eheheheh
Caleb... got ya!
Yeah, i was going to have a custom rack built (hence the other thread where i was trying to figure out the size i wanted). But then when i started ordering materials for these mounts, and then 4xG made their announcement so bought one of their belly guards, the $250 shipped price tag of the Rola couldn't be passed up. It was either that or wait a lot longer to have a custom rack built.
With that said (as shown here (http://www.xk-forum.com/showthread.php/970-Roof-Rack-Sizing?p=14541&viewfull=1#post14541)), the Rola actually measures 74x41 at the outer edges. So, the width really isn't nearly as bad as i was expecting.
IamJEEP
08-19-2011, 01:43 PM
I was wondering what you were going to do there.
Caleb, the adults are talking LMAO I crack myself up. eheheheh
Lol, I'll go back to playing with my legos now.
IamJEEP
08-19-2011, 01:45 PM
Caleb... got ya!
Yeah, i was going to have a custom rack built (hence the other thread where i was trying to figure out the size i wanted). But then when i started ordering materials for these mounts, and then 4xG made their announcement so bought one of their belly guards, the $250 shipped price tag of the Rola couldn't be passed up. It was either that or wait a lot longer to have a custom rack built.
With that said (as shown here (http://www.xk-forum.com/showthread.php/970-Roof-Rack-Sizing?p=14541&viewfull=1#post14541)), the Rola actually measures 74x41 at the outer edges. So, the width really isn't nearly as bad as i was expecting.
41" is a good size, dont get me wrong.
Is the rack metal or alluminun?
Aluminum is metal...... but its the steel kind of metal if thats what you were asking ;)
Machined the last two mounts today.... changed a few processes and got it all done, start to finish cleaning, in 5 hours. Not bad... I bet I can knock out a whole set in 8 hours
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110821125045-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110821114143-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110821133127-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110821122657-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110821122701-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110821123814-1.jpg
IamJEEP
08-22-2011, 08:47 AM
Aluminum is metal...... but its the steel kind of metal if thats what you were asking ;)
Yes smarty pants.....steel, easier to weld on. In case you want to widen the basket, just saying...
IamJEEP
08-22-2011, 08:55 AM
Lol.
Excellent idea!!!
Every now and then I will have one. LOL...
cico7
08-22-2011, 12:26 PM
Caleb, The adults are talking.....
I couldnt pass the op to bust chops on my pal Caleb!!
Matt, this looks really good.
Thanks. :)
I need to pick up some surface prep discs... then ill paint the two new mounts tomorrow and start my "rotation" to fix the paint on the other mounts as well.
Will throw up some fresh "install" pics after they're properly painted.... I can't stand seeing those pics with the surface all rough, especially after the machine time I put into them to make nice smooth / transitional surfaces.
Decided to finish all of the mounts at once... so I took the 4 bad ones off and repainted them last night.
We're supposed to get some rain tonight so ill probably have to put it all on in the garage tonight.... should be interesting!
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110824191715-1.jpg
ScorpionCrawler
08-25-2011, 11:47 AM
Matt nice job, the 7/8 strut was a great idea for the crossrails.
I built a kayak carrier out of 7/8 strut and works well.
Your machined mounts look great.
I just used 1 hole strut 90's back to back to attach to the rails, cheap, but it worked.
Very professional build.
Thanks. :)
I stole the strut idea from Sal. Was going to use the Thule load bars but the 13/32 strut works better... fits the u bolts, is lower profile and allows mounting the rack with stainless steel vibration damping attachments.
ScorpionCrawler
08-25-2011, 12:07 PM
Have you thought about a ladder?
I built one out of 6" ladder rack, swings from the top down from the rail.
Don't have a pic of the ladder but these are a few of the rails without the vertical kayak supports.
I unbolt the vertical to keep my mopar luggage bag from sliding forward and back.
857
859
858
Have not. I'm able to access everything pretty easily from the rear bumper or step stool. Maybe after its lifted a few more inches ill look into a ladder....
All mounted up!!
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110825190149-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110825190219-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110825190206-1.jpg
pjmjr508
08-25-2011, 10:09 PM
Looks great.
cico7
08-26-2011, 05:37 AM
what is the height compared to factory?
I never had a factory rack so I have nothing to compare it to. Posted some measurements though... bottom of my tracks are only .75" above the roof line. I believe the top of the rack is about 6.5" above the highest part of the roof.
cico7
08-26-2011, 06:02 AM
I never had a factory rack so I have nothing to compare it to. Posted some measurements though... bottom of my tracks are only .75" above the roof line. I believe the top of the rack is about 6.5" above the highest part of the roof.
The height above roof line to bottom of the rack is what I meant to ask. .75 answers it.
Thanks.
From the top of the roof, but not the raised ribs, the bottom of the load bars are around .75". Then the rack sits directly on those bars.... I didn't use the mounts that came with the rack since they actually raise the rack a bit above the bars
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110815173023-1.jpg
pjmjr508
08-26-2011, 08:38 AM
I have the stock setup for my Rola rack, so will get some measurements. I will not be able to do before Sunday, brothers bachelor party tonight & wedding tomorrow so kinda busy.
pjmjr508
08-30-2011, 11:51 AM
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/IMAG0170-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/IMAG0171-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/IMAG0172-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/IMAG0173-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/IMAG0174-1.jpg
Hope these help
Finished this up today.... cut the studs flush, added blue loctite and retorqued.
Before:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110819153327-1.jpg
After:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110918164804-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/imported/2011/08/20110918164817-1.jpg
pjmjr508
09-18-2011, 02:30 PM
looks really clean
Adam OJ
09-18-2011, 09:40 PM
Very nice!
sean112280
09-20-2011, 02:47 PM
looks good Matt
lekmedm
09-28-2011, 06:43 PM
Wow!!! A+
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