I'm trying to find a good way off adding an additional 1.5 in to the front and 1 inch to the rear. So if you have any ideas that would be great
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I'm trying to find a good way off adding an additional 1.5 in to the front and 1 inch to the rear. So if you have any ideas that would be great
Old Man Emu medium duty springs and struts on the front, and the extra long load levelling shocks in the rear should do it.
Thanks I will definitely look in to it.
You'll want to add some JBA upper control arms as well.
You could also get a set of custom length KING coilovers for the front.... that would get rid of the large spacer+strut setup and also allow you to fine tune the height (adjust for added accessories like a winch, etc). Last I checked they were around $1700 for the set. I think Jon (steel armadillo) was looking into becoming a KING distributor...
I've tried this. I tried installing OME med-duty springs after I loaded up the front end with a winch and bumper (back when Ross was making them). We couldn't even get the passenger side strut back in the Jeep. The effective lift ended up at about 8" as best as we could guess and though the driver side did install, it barely compressed under the weight of the jeep. I subsequently sold the OME springs to Tom (Phunkeydude) who tried to install them with exactly the same results. He removed them, cut off a full coil (as I recall), reinstalled them and had the lift he was looking for - about 6". He did complain the ride was a little stiff, though. I eventually had custom coils made by Deaver Suspension which worked perfectly, give a great ride and they're on my XK still. But I just wanted to let you know - putting OME springs on a 4" SL did not work for either Phunkeydude or me.
Here is the writeup I did on this modification (other forum) in case anyone else is interested in custom coils (based on the weight of your jeep + accessories)...
I have the 4" Superlift kit which has been great - zero problems. Once I added the GL4x4 winch bumper and a winch (about 200 pounds total), the front coils began to beg for mercy. I had a noticeable reduction in ground clearance with the front end, especially during steep descents when the weight would transfer forward. My original solution was to order a pair of 2-3" Old Man Emu coils to boost the front end back up. During the installation, it was discovered the new springs didn't work with the geometry of the Superlift kit and it boosted the front end an additional 4". Essentially, the front suspension was at full downward extension when sitting under the Jeep's weight. Phunkeydude experienced the exact same situation after he bought those springs from me :) What we discovered was a coil needed to be cut off the OME springs, then the front end went together much better. Far as I know, he's happy with the springs now. The side effect of cutting a coil off a coil spring is you raise the spring rate, as there is now less material to take a given load. My goal was to get 2" of additional lift while keeping close to the stock spring rate (I liked the cadillac ride). I looked around for a spring fabricator and was eventually led to Deaver Suspension in Santa Ana, CA. I purchased a brand new OEM XK front coil spring (code SGZ, I think) from a dealer in Boulder, CO. I sent the spring to Deaver and asked them to exactly match the top and bottom of the spring so it would fit into the strut perfectly, and I told them I wanted a similar spring rate, but with the 2" of lift at the hub. They returned a pair of springs that looked identical to the stock spring except for slightly thicker wire (load carrying) and one more coil (to bring the spring rate back down).
OEM spring on the right, Deaver spring on the left...
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/i...SC_03741-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/i...SC_03751-1.jpg
The installed product brought the front end back up 2.25", exactly what I was hoping for. The ride is very close to stock, maybe just a touch stiffer.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/i...DSC_0366-1.jpg
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/i...DSC_0367-1.jpg
The angles of the CV shafts, A-arms and balljoints all appear to be very similar to anyone running a 2" spacer lift.
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/i...DSC_0368-1.jpg
Here's the upper control arm/balljoint angle before:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/i...SC_03781-1.jpg
And after the new springs:
https://theultimatejeep.com/images/i...DSC_0372-1.jpg
The upper balljoint angle looks a little dramatic compared to before, but because the coil is providing the lift and not a spacer, I still have the 'factory' downward travel limit provided by the strut. While I may upgrade to the custom UCA's for peace of mind, I'm not worried about the stockers. Several off-road trips have not brought up any issues.
One concern I had after receiving the new springs (with an additional coil) was whether or not the coils would bind on themselves during full compression. I flexed up the jeep yesterday enough to lift the rear tire off the ground, and there was still about 1/8" space between coils. No worries.
The blue bungee is holding the stabilizer bar up out of the way. It hasn't been connected since April - personal preference. The Jeep does lean over more than when it's connected but the ride is much better in my opinion. I'm not an aggressive driver so it's working for me.
So that's the experiment. The factory spring cost me about 80 bucks shipped. I then spent another 10 bucks to send it to California. The Deaver custom coils were just under 400 bucks, engineered, fabricated, and sent back to me (along with the OEM spring). If anyone is interested in contacting them, my guess is the cost would be something less than 400 bucks since they now have the specs on file. Though keep in mind these were engineered taking a winch and winch bumper into consideration. Without that weight, I'd probably be at about 6.5" of total front end lift. It's about 5.5" now. You can find Deaver Suspension on the web.
Thanks for the info guys... After doing some more considerations, I've decided to just go with the SL as is... I just got these tires to a point where the engin can haul them around... Any more than 5" and I'll want to get bigger tires to fill that wheel well, lmao. So I'm going to peak at around 33x12.5 tires. 5" is just about all I'm going to need.
Thanks kmax for the info that is good stuff to know and I'm with ajeepzj I just want 5 to 5.5 in the front. Hey kmak are you in Colorado if you are we should do some wheeling sometime.
The concept can be done with the right ingenuity. For instance, I know of someone who has experimented with an add-on to the standard SL that provides a positive range of adjustment to the front-end without new UCAs, coils, struts, etc. I don't think we ever maxed it out, but it was run for a long time with a one-inch adjustment without a problem. I don't want to share his specifics (in case he wants to pursue marketing it), and I'm sure there's more than one way to skin the cat anyway, if you know what I mean.
Bumping this thread back up since I'm planning on doing this in the foreseeable future. Though i'm concerned.... you had all those issues with med-duty springs?
I want to clarify something here:
OME rates the springs as light duty and medium duty for XK's, and the SAME springs as medium and heavy duty for WK's. We (onlline XK/WK community) generally refer to the OME springs in terms of the WK designations of medium and heavy duty.
Thus my question: Did you have issues with the XK medium duty springs, which are actually the WK heavy duty springs?
I don't think it matters either way. Your still going to have to chop a whole coil off. Remember he has the added weight of a steel bumper and winch that you don't.
It definitely matters if he had the WK MD springs since they're weaker than the XK MD springs.
Remember:
WK MD = XK LD
WK HD = XK MD
So when he said MD springs, if he meant XK MD springs then that's what I have and ill consider cutting a coil off. However if he meant WK MD springs, then those are weaker than what I have and ill therefore want to sell my springs and go with a different method of additional lift.
And thinking about it some more.... if he did have the XK MD springs (WK HD), which is what I currently have, I may consider swapping them out for the XK LD (WK MD) springs to mitigate some of the issues phunky had which may allow me to cut less than a full coil off.
You're missing the part about the difference in coils, if my coils are stiffer I'll need to cut more off than phunky did.
His issue was the ride was stiffer from the cut coil .... hence why kmax had custom coils made. so, already starting with a higher spring rate + having to cut more coil off = even stiffer suspension. That's the issue. It all boils down to which OME spring they tried using..... hence my question
EDIT: Brain fart.... these part numbers are the REAR Springs
So just because i've been thinking about this and had a theory, I had to put some numbers to it and found something interesting.
OME992 = WK MD = XK LD = 13.6" free height, 7.2 coils, 240 lbf/in, 17mm wire
OME993 = WK HD = XK MD = 13.6" free height, 6.6 coils, 280 lbf/in, 18mm wire
OME992 with 1 coil removed:
11.7" free height, 6.2 coils, 280 lbf/in <---Note that this is like running the OME993 spring rate and 2" less pre-load in the assembly
OME993 with 1 coil removed:
11.5" free height, 5.6 coils, 330 lbf/in
Based on this, I think I'm going to try an OME992 with 1/2 coil removed:
12.7" free height, 6.7 coils, 260 lbf/in <---- This will give a spring rate in between the OME HD/MD springs, and an inch less preload in the assembly. So it should ride good, and if needed I can always cut another half coil off.
Note that free heights are estimations due to the fact that the top side of the coil closed/ground. But their relative differences to each other should be maintained for comparison purposes.
But still need to know whether kmax/phunk used the OME992 or OME993 spring. I have a feeling, based on the "stiff ride" comment that they cut down an OME993 spring and ended up with a 330 spring rate.
My question is, how do you figure out the spring rate of a coil that has been cut down???
Number of turns in the coil is one of the design parameters in a coil spring. If you know the spring rate and number of turns, you can calculate a given constant for that particular spring design which takes into account wire diameter, coil diameter and shear modulus. Once you know that constant (C) then spring rate k = C/N where N is the number of turns in the coil.
And that my friend is why I joined the Army after high school!!!
^LOL. Well said.
Just get some custom coilovers made for the front and rear and abuse the crap out of it, LOL.
I must admit i am not a fan of cut coils, but I also have access to getting custom coils made easily. The increase in spring rate can get harsh.
I know Omelet cut the top coil off his OME HD and seems happy.
The other thing to look at is the SL incorporates a preload spacer, which goes inside the strut assembly, and is usually good for around 1/2-3/4" (usually closer to 3/4) lift on the standard coil alone. I left these out so we could use the same length spring i previously had and not end up over 7" of lift. This keeps a large amount of flex and rebound abaility. Mine has settled at around 6.25" in the front, and the coils on a normal lift would be good for around 2.75" lift with the heavy bar, winch and batteries etc. If you could simulate the weight you will run on the front, and get a measurement for your current coils then add 3.5" you will be pretty close to your new lift height. Then go from there and try to work out a new spring, or trim down a lower rated coil.
From memory my front coils are 300 rated and 19mm, which gives you an idea on my Jeeps weight... :D And the struts are valved 25% over the OME.
What struts are you using valpacer?
Thanks for the info Dave!
And yeah, i was already planning on leaving that pre-load spacer out.
But Adam always wins. Ask the gf she will tell you. Maybe I'll just change my plans and thown Dana 60s under the XK
Oh yeah? Ask the wife... Matt's ALWAYS right :p
You won't put D60's under there (go ahead, make me wrong for the 1st time lol)
Have any of you looked at the prices of RockJock's for the JK? The front is around 6K..just for the front!!!! How do these JK owners afford crap like that?!?!
Obviously they are not like me that has a wife who carries the balls around in her purse (I'll admit, I'm whooped :)
Lmao at cricket.....dude dont feel bad I have my xk stuff shipped to matts so my fiance wont find out LOL
Matt - going back a few posts...
As I recall I had the OME992 springs, but I think I can dig up the paperwork and find out for sure.
I would appreciate that. Thanks! :)
Damnit i'm an idiot. The previous post with spring specs was the REAR springs (DOH!).
OME990 = WK MD = XK LD = 14.56" free height , 8.9 coils, 530 lbf/in, 18mm wire
OME991 = WK HD = XK MD = 14.37" free height, 8.9 coils, 630 lbf/in, 19mm wire
OE Spring rate = 440 lbf/in
OME990 with 1 coil removed:
12.92" free height, 7.9 coils, 600 lbf/in
OME991 with 1 coil removed:
12.76" free height, 7.9 coils, 710 lbf/in
According to Phunkydude's garage thread, he had the OME991's.... which makes sense why the ride sucked with 1 coil removed! 710 lbf/in spring rate :eek: My OME HD are firm enough at 630...
So, keeping with the theme, I think im going to try the OME990's unless kmax confirms that phunky's garage thread is wrong and they used the OME990s.
http://www.jeepcommander.com/forums/...ead.php?t=4930
http://www.jeepcommander.com/forums/...4&postcount=33
I'll just have to decide how much I want to cut off. With the 5.7L XK, I believe the lift achieved from the OME990 springs is under 2", so I may try cutting 1/2 coil off instead (which also should account for the preload spacer that comes with the superlift):
OME990 with 1/2 coil removed:
13.74" free height, 8.4 coils, 560 lbf/in
Or maybe intall the OME990s uncut to get a baseline to work with first. That's what i'll probably end up doing...