Alignment problems after front suspension modification

Okay, over the past couple weeks i've been working on the jeep trying to do a couple different modifications. I don't post alot messages or pictures on the forum, but i'm always reading it and getting new ideas. Well....about 3 years ago when I purchased the jeep, I decided to install the superlift 4" lift w/ mickey thompson classic II wheels. See picture below...

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After driving it for a while, I just couldn't stand how much the tires would rub when turning. So needless to say, I purchased 1.25" spacers and put my stock wheels on. For the most part, that fixed my rubbing problem... See picture below.

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Well, every thing was great, but could not stand the nose down stance. So to correct that I was contemplating a couple different methods; trying a double stacking method, installing the OME lift plus the 4" lift. The more I thought about it, I just couldn't do it. I read a couple posts that KMAX did and how he had problems trying to install the OME lift plus the superlift. Well I contacted Kmax, he was really helpful on helping me to find a better solution to what I wanted, that is a more level stance. He recommended Deavor suspension custom coils. The more I thought about it, I decided to pull the trigger and get some custom coils made. The nice thing was, I was able to use Kmax's previous information on the coils, so they had everything on file. Well the next thing I wanted to do was replace my upper control arms. I really liked the way the Jeepinbyal ones looked as well as I couldn't find any complaints about them. So I decided to order a set of upper control arms. Well heck, I've already spent enough money, wife is already mad, the front end of the jeep will be disassembled, why not just replace the lower ball joints??? Well thats what I decided to do. Ordered and received some MOOG lower ball joints. Well it kinda felt like christmas for the next couple of days, with UPS and FEDEX showing up and giving me all these goodies. I opened up all the packages and drooled all over my new toys for a little bit. So the day came to finally install everything. Minus it being a complete pain in the butt, I got the custom springs, upper control arms and lower ball joints replaced. Since, I was able to gain a couple more inches, I decided to put my mickey thompson wheels back on. Here is a couple of photos showing my new stance and wheels....

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After doing all these modifications, I knew I would have to get an alignment done. Now this is where my problem is. My camber, caster and toe are all out of specs. The tech said he adjusted everything to the max. He was able to get the cross camber and cross caster within the specified range, but the total toe is still way out. I kinda knew before starting this project I might have this problem. Now the jeep drives great with no pulling and steering wheel being centered. I know I'm going to have accelerated tire wear. But has anyone else had similar problems, after intalling a lift, the alignment does not fall whitin specs?

Another question I have is, are the jeepinbyal control arms side specific? They were not marked in any way so I just installed them.

Thanks

Here is a picture of the alignment print out from the shop.

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Is there anything else I might be able to do in order to correct the alignment problems?

Thanks

Have a printout of the alignment? Have you tried another shop? I've never seen a vehicle where the toe couldn't be adjusted to spec..... ever. Camber/Caster can be an issue.

Edit: i was typing this when you posted that

What's your total lift up front now?


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yeah I posted a print out in the second post.

I agree with you, I should get a second opinion before digging to deep.

He didn't touch your camber/caster...

I haven't seen the superlift in person. Do you have any pictures of how the LCA is installed? Wondering if the superlift maintains the same method of adjustment as OEM (or hopefully improves it)

It's dark out, so it's almost 41".

here is the best picture I have. Not a good one. I will try and get better pictures some time this week.

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Looks like it'll still be the rear mount. i'm guessing your alignment tech didn't know how to adjust it (or didnt want to).

As far as the control arms go... the OEM ones aren't side specific but im not sure if the JBA arms are. Maybe someone else can chime in on that..

hopefully, not having very much luck with their customer support. I called and emailed with no answers.

Here is another picture, not the best, but I installed the Bilestin 7100 rear shocks

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I will keep drving the jeep and when I get a chance, will take it to another shop for a second opinion.

thanks

It says at the bottom of the print out that your tie rods are adjusted all the way in but need to be adjusted in more. If that's the problem that's an easy fix. A few months ago I ordered a new inner tie rod for the drivers side because it was shot. The MOOG inner tie rods have more threads on them so u can adjust the outter tire rod end in farther. So replace both inner tie rods (you could probably use them anyways) and you'll be set.

Thanks, but my whole rack and pinion is relatively new. Not even a year old. I will definitely look into that.


Edit: Do you remember the part numbers?

The toe is largely affected by the camber/caster adjustment. When you find someone to finally do a full alignment, the toe will should come within spec.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gulf550

hopefully, not having very much luck with their customer support. I called and emailed with no answers.

Here is another picture, not the best, but I installed the Bilestin 7100 rear shocks

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I will keep drving the jeep and when I get a chance, will take it to another shop for a second opinion.

thanks

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Take it to a 4x4 Shop

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AJeepZJ

Take it to a 4x4 Shop

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Agreed, the average shop does not always have the experience needed

Okay......

I did what everyone suggested to do, take to another place. So I took it back to the shop the originall installed the superlift. They came back and said the same thing. I had a copy of the print out, but what the heck i did with it, i have no clue. I've been traveling alot for work lately, I was sent to turks and caicos, fort lauderdale, charleston SC, panama city fl. and many more, so getting a chance to work or the jeep is very hard.

I did ask if they tryed to adjust the camber and caster by moving the lower control arm, and they said they did. It is adjusted to it's max.

So... I went ahead and had ordered all new inner and outer tie rod ends. It was pretty straight forword on replacing them. Once I got them replaced, I took the jeep back to the original shop that does all my alignments on my vehicles. Here is a picture of the print out..



Now after talking with jeepinbyal, they stated the a-arms were designed for a lift kit other than superlift. SL uses a steering knuckle extension to level out the factory a-arm. If you add more lift the jeep then our a-arms will work.

My caster and camber are still out. They said they tried adjusting the lower control arms again, but they are maxed out. So 2 different places have said the same thing.

So, I'm not really sure what I should do. Do I put the original control arms back in? Is they additional lift added my my custom coils causing this? or di I put the stock steering knuckles back in the jeep?

Thanks

wow that is weird

for some reason, i'm having a hard time uploading pictures from my scanner, this is a picture with my phone. Hope you can read it.

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I was able to be mine aligned yesterday and it turned out pretty good. Well according to the print out. They shop said my caster issue cant be fixed but thats due to the lift. Whatever, not going to lose sleep over it as long as it doesnt totally destroy the new tires im about to purchase. Also I had a defective boot on one of my JBA HD UCA's. Just called JBA and they are sending me a new one along with all the hardware to bolt on my 4xguard belly skid that i never received through the previous owners. I had to just go to the local hardware store at the time and find bolts/nuts that would work. Anyways....you cant just throw on your old steering knuckes if your keeping the rest of the lift on. The superlift steering knuckle is extended to make up for the cross member drop down brackets. With the old knuckles, your JBA UCA's would reach to be able to put the ball joint bolt on. Not only that but your tie rods would be at a horrible angle too because the raise that part on the new knuckle.

I see what your saying.

well, when i was doing the tie road installation, i found i was making contact on the passenger side with the steering knucle and the bottom of the spring isolator and the steering knuckle and the coils. I will try and post some pictures....If it works....

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you can see in one of the previous pictures, the upper ball joint doesn't look like it is fully seated.

Here are some more pictures of what it looks like.

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I appoligize if they are hard to see, they were taken with my phone.

Looking at the front, you can kinda notice the top of the tires being in alittle, but it's not that bad.

Just for fun, here is a picture of when I had to go to panama beach fl for work. We had a newer jeep cherokee

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gulf550

I see what your saying.

well, when i was doing the tie road installation, i found i was making contact on the passenger side with the steering knucle and the bottom of the spring isolator and the steering knuckle and the coils. I will try and post some pictures....If it works....

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When I have the front up on jack stands and the tires are off the ground, my steering knuckles hit the coil and coil isolator too. I called JBA and they said now that the ball joint isn't binding its going to do that. Also I just noticed today that my tires are sitting in like yours (mostly the passenger side tire) so I called the alignment shop. I was told they never touched the lower control arms cause the machine said they were in spec. Just my toe was off so they messed with the outter tie rods. I might have to take it right to the dealer and see if they can align it alittle better.