Is Lance Armstrong a Fraud?

Every morning I follow the same routine. Get up, read the paper, enjoy a coffee and turn the tv to ESPN. I dunno how many of you follow sports but of the few sports people I idolize as a kid, even today - one of them was Lance. I watched EVERY tour that he was in sitting at the edge of my seat the entire time hoping he'd win, lol. I want to know what you guys think of Lance basically throwing in the towel about the doping allegations which will now lead to him being stripped of all of his Tour De France titles.

Fraud!!!

Its easy for us to ASSUME guilt, for me I wont change my thought of him. I believe theres a chance that he was doping but honestly, would we REALLY ever know the truth?!?! What the guy did, doping or not was still one of the greatest sporting accomplishments we may ever see, taking away titles will never take away the thrill of watching it. I never followed him as closely as you did but watched his races and always routed for the guy. Maybe the guy doesnt want to be center of attention for the next 2 yrs while the case goes on and accusations are constantly made, maybe he just said screw it take my accomplishments Im done fighting and standing up for myself OR maybe he really was doping, nothing will change what he over came and in my eyes thats all that matters.

As usual there's a bunch of questionable conjecture in the allegations.

I'm a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty, and they haven't proven anything. They're using testimony from people who were caught doping saying that Lance was involved (at the rewards of leniency for their cooperation).....

I think Lance is tired of it and ready to move on. Can't blame him..... this has been going on so long it really does feel like a witch hunt.

And my final food-for-thought.... there seems to be this illusion that IF he was on something, that he was the only one. Guess what, I bet a lot of those guys that lost 7 years in a row were doping trying to finally win.

I follow all baseball pretty insanely but other sports I do just watch ESPN to keep updated on whats going on, and of course I am a fan of lance and I don't really know how to think about all of this; especially with basbeall...I get disgusted when players are caught using enhancement drugs.....

Personally I dont care who uses PEDs, they want to ruin their bodies and have children with birth defects thats on them... I just hate the argument, "what kind of message are they sending to the little kids growing up watching them?" The little kids wouldnt know who was using them and who wasnt if the media and leagues blow it out of proportion. WE as fans are the reason athletes use PEDs, we want to see big hit in football, multiple title wins in cycling, 100000000 home runs.. Its just a matter of who gets caught and who doesnt, thats it.

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Originally Posted by 06JeepXKHEMI

Personally I dont care who uses PEDs, they want to ruin their bodies and have children with birth defects thats on them... I just hate the argument, "what kind of message are they sending to the little kids growing up watching them?" The little kids wouldnt know who was using them and who wasnt if the media and leagues blow it out of proportion. WE as fans are the reason athletes use PEDs, we want to see big hit in football, multiple title wins in cycling, 100000000 home runs.. Its just a matter of who gets caught and who doesnt, thats it.

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I definitely agree the media blows everything out of proportion but this isnt just for sports. I mean yeah its awesome watching huge hits and earnings but do it honestly like the majority of other athletes. I just am completely against any PEDs in all sports minor or major.

The reason I stopped caring is that there is NEVER going to be sports without PEDs, NEVER. So why sit here make a big deal about an athlete that has when the majority of athletes are or have doped. I get it do it honestly, but what if your favorite athlete did it honestly for so long and never made it so he doped one time to get the edge, got the starting spot and now makes millions?? Cause it happened 5 yrs ago no one may never know or ever know about it, its sad but its part of sports

Well your definitely right as it will never stop happening but when you hear about such iconic athletes like armstrong....it gets me dissapointed.

I dont think the majority of athletes use these drugs, that's a little presumptuous. But, it is safe to say that athletes are getting away with it a lot and that should not be the case. I think we'd have to put ourselves in the shoes of those who they compete with. If you were the biker, or swimmer, baseball player, or whatever... And you lost only to find out that the winner was using PED's I think you'd have a new-found levelp of disappointment. It undermines the integrity and efforts of others.

But I agree that you are innocent untill proven guilty, but his withdrawal leaves me perplexed, lol.

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Originally Posted by AJeepZJ

, his withdrawal leaves me perplexed, lol.

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From his quotes that have been published and the information about the ADA precedings, it looks like it was a one-sided fight, they were dragging him through the mud without a realistic chance to defend himself and basically saying "well we can't prove you did it, but you can't prove you didn't, so we think you're guilty and aren't going to stop until that's the outcome".

Apparently it is now guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. Even then they aren't letting him completely defend himself. Show me a test that came back positive for anything. They can't. It was once said he was the most tested athlete in the world, at over 500 tests, and NONE of them came back positive yet this group of "teammates" were offered full immunity if they testified against him. It's amazing how these "men" can cheat themselves, continually lie about cheating, and still are thought of as credible witnesses. I think I'll make a donation to Live Strong.

Ok maybe not the majority of athletes, but i would a good portion of them have or are using PEDs, thats my opinion, again maybe over exaggerating by saying majority as majority probably are not. I actually have been in those shoes of an athlete who did not qualify for a state soccer team called ODP, Olympic Developmental Program, cause of a kid who open, in high school, to using steriods. But I didnt blame his steriod use for the reason I lost, thats just me I do my best not to blame anyone for me not accomplishing my goals. I can understand on a larger stage it may be different. Personally I dont think Lance was using PEDs, he's been fighting the battle for years and passed piss test after piss test, to me thats evidence, not an individual(s) coming forward to protect their own name by tarnishing someone elses. Its been a battle he's fought and like Matt said regardless of test results they believed otherwise. At this point people who are to quick to assume what the media says is true or all allegations are true, already believe he used PEDs, so whats the point to fight if he will never be able to clear his guilt. Im just happy to hear Nike will still support him and his foundation, cause in the end thats all Lance really care's about and why I will never lose respect for him..

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Originally Posted by 06JeepXKHEMI

Ok maybe not the majority of athletes, but i would a good portion of them have or are using PEDs, thats my opinion, again maybe over exaggerating by saying majority as majority probably are not. I actually have been in those shoes of an athlete who did not qualify for a state soccer team called ODP, Olympic Developmental Program, cause of a kid who open, in high school, to using steriods. But I didnt blame his steriod use for the reason I lost, thats just me I do my best not to blame anyone for me not accomplishing my goals. I can understand on a larger stage it may be different. Personally I dont think Lance was using PEDs, he's been fighting the battle for years and passed piss test after piss test, to me thats evidence, not an individual(s) coming forward to protect their own name by tarnishing someone elses. Its been a battle he's fought and like Matt said regardless of test results they believed otherwise. At this point people who are to quick to assume what the media says is true or all allegations are true, already believe he used PEDs, so whats the point to fight if he will never be able to clear his guilt. Im just happy to hear Nike will still support him and his foundation, cause in the end thats all Lance really care's about and why I will never lose respect for him..

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No I think your opinion is pretty accurate but I don't think majority uses PEDs either...especially with the embaressment and consequences others have recently faced. I don't think Lance did PEDs I was just commenting on IF he did admit it or proof was discovered then I would be very disapointed. The media is a black cloud for anyone targetted because once somethings comes out in the media it is totally blown open, and everyone believes the media right away....because they hold the type of influence and power. I don't believe the media because I am more of a factual person but it still makes you wonder and hope the allegations are false.

I would have to disagree with your point of it being embarrassing and the consequences for athletes using PEDs, clearly these athletes dont care about any of that or else that wouldnt be getting arrested for smoking weed in the parking lot before practice (Udonis Haslem), or smoking 3 blunts in your car after a game (Santonio Holmes), breaking liquor bottles over peoples heads in a strip club(Pacman Jones), sleeping with 40+ woman (Tiger Woods), using PEDs (Barry Bonds), shooting yourself in the leg (Plexico Burress) and so on, its clear to me athletes dont care else this wouldnt happen. I also believe the things these athletes and many other have done, killing white chicks (O.J. Simpson), are much worse examples to kids than using PEDS..

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Originally Posted by 06JeepXKHEMI

I would have to disagree with your point of it being embarrassing and the consequences for athletes using PEDs, clearly these athletes dont care about any of that or else that wouldnt be getting arrested for smoking weed in the parking lot before practice (Udonis Haslem), or smoking 3 blunts in your car after a game (Santonio Holmes), breaking liquor bottles over peoples heads in a strip club(Pacman Jones), sleeping with 40+ woman (Tiger Woods), using PEDs (Barry Bonds), shooting yourself in the leg (Plexico Burress) and so on, its clear to me athletes dont care else this wouldnt happen. I also believe the things these athletes and many other have done, killing white chicks (O.J. Simpson), are much worse examples to kids than using PEDS..

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Agree with the example on kids with the athletes you mentioned; but there will always be "the exceptions" to any situation and there is no avoiding that. However, I think the larg majority of athletes who do not use PEDS choose not to do it for many reasons and ONE of the reasons may be the consequences/emabressment others have faced. I would hope the reason is they have more honor and pride then to take a supplement to essentially be better then the norm. and all that comes along with it.

I just have a tremendous amount of respect for natural athletes who do it honestly, fair, and because they love it. This seems to be fading away more and more with always wanting more money especially

Example: Lee taking 30million less JUST to play for the city and team he wants to be at......you don't see this very often

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Originally Posted by 06JeepXKHEMI

Im just happy to hear Nike will still support him and his foundation, cause in the end thats all Lance really care's about and why I will never lose respect for him..

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I am no conspiracy theorist, lol, but it seems like NIKE has become quick to stand behind its endorsees. Despite that Lance was willing to risk all of his endorsements, Im not entirely sure how I feel about that. But when your integrity is put to question, and you handle millions of dollars a year, it should naturally make others question whether or not his philanthropic foundation operates in the same fashion.

Only thing that makes me worry is that some people will interpret this risky behavior being worth the risk. I can do w/e I want, plead out, and still have it all.

But domt get me wrong, lol. I still wear the same Livestrong band since high school. :)

No. The USADA IS, however. :mad:

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Originally Posted by AJeepZJ

I still wear the same Livestrong band since high school. :)

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I am glad im not the only one - still rocking it strong. Especially since my wife had cancer.... Love him or hate him Lance has done SOOOO MUCH for cancer research with his Livestrong group.