UC Davis Pepper Spray

[hoaxci5]

By not leaving they started the violence? You either misunderstood what I was saying or have an interesting way of defining violence.

I still think they should have just arrested them without using pepper spray since there was no violence. As soon as one of them started fighting back then it's a free for all on that person and so on if it escalates.

[cico7]

By not leaving they started the violence? You either misunderstood what I was saying or have an interesting way of defining violence.

I believe you understood correctly. The protestors started this when they refused to obey a lawful order.
The proximate cause of the resulting violence is unlawful assembly.
The assembly became unlawful when they were told to leave. This is how I view it.

[Sal-XK]

I was going to stay out of this one but decided to chime in LOL First the police were ordered by the president of the university not to do anything and thats why the cop spraying and his chief were put on administrative leave for investigation. Which leads to my point that to many not all but way to many Police have the attitude there in charge no matter what and some how are above the law. I see all the time cops speeding for no reason or asking for ID with no cause and they get real upset if you know your rights and refuse I'm getting off topic I guess. College kids sitting down refusing to move with a standing order not to do anything with that information the COP was wrong. These particular students were protesting the raising of there tuition's where dozens of administrators not teachers admin people are making 200k+ a year and with the recent economy student jobs are impossible to find. Does all this matter maybe not but it adds a little perspective to the situation. I knew when reading Don's post he was getting his protests confused with the occupy wall street crowd which these kids where not. I mean we have cops caring automatic weapons repelling out of helicopters all kinds of crazy stuff now I can't be the only person that see a problem with this. I remember when a cop would pull over and help if you broke down now they just blow by you. I was walking with my gram once we got caught in storm and a cop picked us up and took us home you will never see that today you can't even ask them for directions with out them looking at you like your insane. Ok now I'm way off topic LOL remember I didn't say all cops I said to many cops

[hoaxci5]

I don't think you can use proximate cause as a justification for elevation of force. I'm no lawyer though.. I'd argue (discuss ) that elevation of force must be a result of DIRECT threat or else LEO's could just run free and use proximate cause to justify any level of force they decided was appropriate which won't fly.

[Sal-XK]

I don't think you can use proximate cause as a justification for elevation of force. I'm no lawyer though.. I'd argue (discuss ) that elevation of force must be a result of DIRECT threat or else LEO's could just run free and use proximate cause to justify any level of force they decided was appropriate which won't fly.

I agree and kinda what I'm trying to say the attitude of the police is no longer protect and serve and has slid to more of a paramilitary force IMO. I have a lot of family in law enforcement so I don't dislike the police just the direction they been going in for the last 15years. My sheriff's department is still old school when I built my house the stopped by and introduced them selves to me and gave numbers if I ever had any concerns they actually serve the community. I don't think I have ever even seen one of my deputies brake a traffic law.

[hoaxci5]

Don't go bashing people or your might have your mod privileged removed

[hoaxci5]

I really don't think it matters if it was a lawful order or not, that is where I was going with the disagreement with using proximate cause as the justification for the pepper spray.
What we don't see in the video is if any of the officers tried to arrest any of the sitting students. If they did and they fought back (an actual attempt to fight back is required for resisting, not cooperating is not resisting) then the pepper spray was earned.. I highly doubt that the LEO's tried to arrest the sitting students though, I think they skipped a step which is why I disagree.

[Sal-XK]

Don't go bashing people or your might have your mod privileged removed

I'm not bashing people I don't think am I? I'm bashing the core value of the new direction of a lot of Law Agencies mostly the bigger ones LA, NY those type places. We still have great law agencies in this country doing it right and keeping safe. You guys see the one where the florida state trooper pulled the Miami PD dude over in his squad car for going over 120MPH. Watch that video she is directly ordered by her supervisor to stop her pursuit but continued any way pulled the cop out at gun point and cuffed him. My point there in charge no matter what she wanted this dude and no body was going to tell her not to.