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Thread: UC Davis Pepper Spray

  1. #11
    Senior Member Getting Dirty hoaxci5's Avatar
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    So I'm obviously going to be the odd man out in this one.. here's my thought though.. I see pepper spray as a defensive weapon. That is the biggest difference that I think causes the issue, since there was no one playing offense why was such a strong defense needed?

    It's my understanding that police are to use presence, verbal, soft hands, spray, hard hands, baton, lethal.. now I know we don't get the full picture from the video but why couldn't the LEO's separate the chain and arrest accordingly without the pepper spray?

    And just to be clear it doesn't matter what they were protesting that isn't what this is about, I don't support what they are protesting for in the least bit but that doesn't mean I don't support their right to protest..

  2. #12
    Senior Member Getting Dirty cico7's Avatar
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    They film crew did not start taking video when the police started spraying, the video was cut to create the greatest impact on the viewing
    audience. What you do not see are the events leading up to the spray.

    I believe you are correct on the order of the application of force, but the video does not show the fights, the drug sales, the looting and
    vandalism. The video does not show the remaining conditions of the premises when the demonstrators left. It may be a construction site,
    but it is private property.

    The owner of the property can still be held liable for injuries caused by the vandals if the owner did nothing to stop the activities.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Getting Dirty hoaxci5's Avatar
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    In the video I posted he doesn't start spraying until 11 seconds in after showing everyone that he had pepper spray in his hand..

    The fights, drug sales, and whatever else shouldn't matter with how the police respond to individuals sitting on the ground. If they had just witnessed that specifically with one or more of those people then they should have been targeted individually.. I doubt that group sitting there was seconds before partaking in some legal activity (beyond trespassing at this point which is arguable since it's a college campus but whatever..) that the police witnessed and then didn't attempt the first 3 steps of escalation of force.

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    if you are intentionally obstructing justice, be able to handle the consequences.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Getting Dirty Adondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cico7 View Post
    They film crew did not start taking video when the police started spraying, the video was cut to create the greatest impact on the viewing
    audience. What you do not see are the events leading up to the spray.
    That is typical of just about any media event anymore. The media seems to have changed from just reporting the news, (decades ago) to trying to put a slant on the news.

    I love how the cop just leisurely strolls along the line of protesters, with the stream of OC from the can looking as if it could be Round-Up being sprayed on weeds along a fence. Replace the cop's uniform with a polo shirt and jeans, remove the protesters, and replace the can of mace with a nozzle of a plant poison sprayer, and his pose would be exactly the same. Just my two cents worth.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Getting Dirty cico7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoaxci5 View Post
    ..... (beyond trespassing at this point which is arguable since it's a college campus but whatever..) that the police witnessed and then didn't attempt the first 3 steps of escalation of force.
    I see it was a Campus, I thought at first it was a construction site but i have my stories confused. It is still private property and the college is still responsible for the well being of everyone. We dont know what they tried before the spray started. He did warn them that he was going to spray by showing the can and no one moved.

    If the police spray the protestors and they run off, the police dont have to arrest the them.

    The police could have backed up the bus and hauled everyone away. From what I saw and have heard on the news, I think the police responded reasonably. Pepper spray is not violent, clubs, nightsticks and guns are violent.

    Have you (ANYONE) ever been in the middle of something like this that turned violent? Not talking about military action involving people who have been trained, but as a bystander? I was once.
    Last edited by cico7; 11-30-2011 at 05:42 PM.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Getting Dirty hoaxci5's Avatar
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    Pepper spray as a punishment for a crime isn't right though, if they committed a crime they should have been arrested not punished on the street since it isn't the police officers job to punish beyond issuing a ticket.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Getting Dirty cico7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoaxci5 View Post
    Pepper spray as a punishment for a crime isn't right though, if they committed a crime they should have been arrested not punished on the street since it isn't the police officers job to punish beyond issuing a ticket.
    Please, I view this as a discussion, not a debate or argument. We wont agree on the outcome I am sure.

    I think the LEO's are responding to something larger than the kids sitting. They do have the responsibility to keep violence from escalating.

    Dispersing the crowd does keep the activities from getting out of hand. What if they used water instead of pepper spray? Are they still punishing the protestors?

    The water may not hurt but the water pressure does. A fire hose can break ribs or worse.

    Wait, were you one of the protesters that got sprayed?

  9. #19
    Senior Member Getting Dirty hoaxci5's Avatar
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    I think if their primary role was to clear the crowd they should have dropped a tear gas canister and split

    That's only half joking though, because in that case they wouldn't have singled out a few people.. there were more protesters than just those sitting in a circle.
    If they have a responsibility to keep violence from escalating then why did they start it? (I view inflicting pain on someone as violence so that is where I'm coming from on that one..)

    Nah you wouldn't catch me at a occupy protest, like I said in the beginning I don't agree with them, but I support their right to protest.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Getting Dirty cico7's Avatar
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    The police didnt start it, the protestors did when they refused to leave. They were given a lawful order.
    If you want to maintain the fight, meet thier action with equal reaction. If you want to stop it, beat the **** out of them
    with extreme prejudice and they can no longer argue. That stops thier action.

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