Who Should Jon Be

[07JeepXK]

Just to bring this a bit back down to earth..... I don't think there is actually an "issue" or that anyone has a problem.

Its a topic of discussion that came up and Jon wanted to get ideas/suggestions on what to do. Implicating that people are whining or starting trouble and "should go back to the other forum" is a bit rash and not what we're about here.

Just to clear a few things up. I said, "If the only reason you are here to cause trouble, then MAYBE you should go back to the other forum. No one here wants to deal with individuals that are here for the sole purpose of causing problems.

FWIW, I know the entire back ground on how this whole situation started.

[Matt]

You and that baggage.....

[SkidMarx]

Being new here, I didn't even realize SA and Knappster were the same person, or that he is the site owner.
'Site Owner' under his UID and "Owner of Steel Armadillo" in his sig(which he already did) would help clear things up.

That way, If I was coming here for the first time, I would assume that as the site owner he an enthusiast who has the best interest of the site in mind. but if I'm asking where I should buy [whatever] he will most likely point me to his site.

Trying to keep the 'Enthusiest owner' ID separate from the 'Vende'r ID seems shady even though I understand why it was done.
An 'Admin' ID might not be a bad idea.

I do think he should change his ID to
KnappsterTheOwnerOfThisSiteWhoAlsoHappensToOwnStee lArmadillo

my .02

[cico7]

I hate to say it, but who cares! .

Well I would say jon does because he started the other thread.
I dont know anyone here for the purpose of causing trouble, but your comments and attitude are offensive as hell.
This poll was started as a format to discuss what more than one person saw a conflict of interest. If you dont understand that,
you shouldnt get involved in the discussion. Jon has a lot of supporters here and that is well and good. But as a business man
he has to take a longer look at the possibility of the conflicts and address them accordingly.

[cico7]

I do think he should change his ID to
KnappsterTheOwnerOfThisSiteWhoAlsoHappensToOwnStee lArmadillo

my .02

I like this idea too.
Oh, not everyone knew or was aware that Jon had stepped aside as an moderator/admin.

[strokeZ]

I think this has been said before, but I do support Jon participating as Steel Armadillo as long as he adheres to the guidelines put forth for other manufacturers on this forum. I would expect, given Jon's character that he has done this already. I see it no different than 4XGuard being on the forum and El Cid being a member, or Doc / Stone Soup or any of the others.

We as a forum need to remember that we have a limited production vehicle for all intents and purposes and we should foster any product development. Doc in AZ, Bigred...., Jon and El Cid (when representing 4XG) are in here to help their business and to help us better our vehicles.

No one is going to become a Bill Gates making products for our rigs - especially given the limited folks that are interested, but hey it does need to be profitable.

There is absolutely no need for childish bullsh&t on our forum. I see that all the time on the other forums (Jeep and BMW) and that is one reason why I joined this one.

Now that I have said my $0.02 I feel MUCH better.

[Sal-XK]

Lets not forget that the forum came first! It was made to fill a need for members to be free to talk and discuss what we wanted without censorship. We needed a place to talk about businesses and products without getting band for it. The business came second after 4xG went up for sale and created a hole in our market because we didn't know who or if anyone would be purchasing it and then what direction they might be taking it in. Myself and several members here have put a lot of work into this forum and did a lot of recruiting to get people over her and we would not have done that if this forum wasn't awesome! I've never seen any thing malicious on this forum and never seen any member including Jon do anything except for the good of our community and the growth of our hobby. I to don't understand why someone thought there was a problem and no I don't know who they are or even if there regular members here. From what I've read here so far that one or two people brought this up and wrote a third person to bring it forward and based on the discussion in both threads by the forum members it seems there really isn't a issue here except that the new people did not know who Jon Jon was. This is something easily fixed by Jon's sig and also I could add a brief explanation to the welcome message that I do try to give to every new member now for the last few months. In case the old members didn't know a few months ago we started sending welcome messages to all new members.

[El Cid]

I hate to say it, but who cares! Why is this becoming a big issue? Jon owns this forum and because of his love for Jeeps we all are able to participate and be members on this forum. I don't know about you guys, but I'm honored to be here and honored to be a Super Moderator. If the only reason you are here is to cause problems, then my advice is maybe you should go back to the "other forum". Lets all be adults, stop our whining and just have a good time on a great forum. There are a lot of knowledgeable members here that have put forth a lot of work to make this the Ultimate Jeep Forum.

Who cares?

Forum members do, as a matter of fact. You know, the members of the forum you're supposed to be helping out as a Super Moderator? The ones who made this more than just Jon talking to himself in a vacuum? Indeed, if you look around, maybe it's even some of those "knowledgeable members" who have done so much for the place?

Frankly, I daresay that your response here, 07JeepXK, is the first time that anyone has acted like less than an adult when it comes to this matter, the first time anyone has treated anyone else with anything less than professional respect.

I'm glad you're honored to be a Super Moderator. You should be. It's a badge that carries with it a lot of responsibilities. I think it also carries some expectations, though, and one of them is to respond to matters not emotionally but rationally, thinking not short-term but long-term.

Being new here, I didn't even realize SA and Knappster were the same person, or that he is the site owner. 'Site Owner' under his UID and "Owner of Steel Armadillo" in his sig(which he already did) would help clear things up.

That way, If I was coming here for the first time, I would assume that as the site owner he an enthusiast who has the best interest of the site in mind. but if I'm asking where I should buy [whatever] he will most likely point me to his site.

Trying to keep the 'Enthusiest owner' ID separate from the 'Vende'r ID seems shady even though I understand why it was done.

Nicely (and rationally) said, SkidMarx. And welcome!

As you can see, 07JeepXK, there is plenty of evidence that there is already a problem (and that no one is causing it out of malice). This might be a minor problem now -- a few folks don't know who is who -- but it's a problem that will inevitably grow over time and increase in its complexity.

To put this in terms we can all understand:

Imagine that this forum is the Ultimate Jeep (see what I did there?). You've been driving it for a while. It's been running great. Takes you where you want to go, does it with style, and you sure as hell enjoy the ride on the way. Only one day you happen to hear this intermittent grinding in the differential. It's there for a little bit, and then it's gone. A few days later it grinds again and then goes away. It isn't constant, and you don't think the Ultimate Jeep you've been driving is going to explode or anything -- nothing so dire as that -- but you're also pretty sure that it would be better if the diff didn't grind like that. So what do you do?

If it's me, I try to fix the minor problem before it becomes a major problem.

I sure haven't had much luck with telling the problem it's stupid and should go away.

I think this has been said before, but I do support Jon participating as Steel Armadillo as long as he adheres to the guidelines put forth for other manufacturers on this forum. I would expect, given Jon's character that he has done this already. I see it no different than 4XGuard being on the forum and El Cid being a member, or Doc / Stone Soup or any of the others.

I don't think anyone is not supportive of Jon and his new venture. I for one have tried to give one-on-one advice to Jon in person and over the wires not only on how to improve some of his products but also how to leverage his position in the marketplace.

This is not about whether anyone likes or dislikes Jon or SA (or anyone/thing else, for that matter). At least not to me it's not. I see it simply as a matter of transparency that could cause problems down the road (problems, in fact, that could easily harm Jon's business).

As for the examples you give, one major difference is that there was no 4xGuard account doing any posting. There was only me, El Cid (back before the business was sold). Just one account. Same with Doc/Soup. Jon is the only one with two accounts, which is the key matter under discussion here.

The discussion in the "conflict of interest" thread is pertinent to the other major difference in the examples. I had no ability to delete comments, ban members, etc. no matter what they said about 4xGuard's products. Jon very much does have that ability (though, as stated, he says he won't use it).

...

All that said, I'd like to change my vote to Jon being just "Knappster" -- assuming he wants to keep that name, like I did my "El Cid" moniker, and then have sig and branding make clear he's SA -- except when he's talking as owner of the forum and uses the name Admin (or Forum Deity or the like), and that the sigs would cross-reference. Transparency ought to put the issue to bed (like Sal's suggestion of an explanation in a welcome message or whatever).

And I'd go for "Forum Deity," Jon. When you hold the cards, man, play 'em.

[El Cid]

Forgot to respond to this:

I to don't understand why someone thought there was a problem and no I don't know who they are or even if there regular members here. From what I've read here so far that one or two people brought this up and wrote a third person to bring it forward and based on the discussion in both threads by the forum members it seems there really isn't a issue here except that the new people did not know who Jon Jon was.

I'd like to hope that it's just one or two folks, Sal, but at the same time my gut tells me that it's not so simple.

Given the fact that bringing up the issue is taking on the administrative power of the forum and that no one wants to be banned from the Ultimate Jeep Forum -- talk about embarrassment! -- I suspect that the small number of minority voices actually represents a larger sample of silent and shaking opinion.

At least that's how such things usually work.

I'd be happy to be wrong, though.

[Bigredmariner]

I would personally stay away from "Forum Deity", heck man I had to go google that. If this was a forum for drinking tea or playing golf that title might work, I still have grease under my nails and that title just baffled me. Just sayin'