Would you remove the front frame support for a better WINCH bumper?

[cico7]

You need pics of the options, kinda like a mcdonalds menu.

[LWM]

You need pics of the options, kinda like a mcdonalds menu.

I would have to have photoshop skills

[Matt]

Exactly, there are only three options if you do not remove the cross member:

1) Mount the winch in front of the cross member like my current R&D design as shown in post #1
2) Mount the winch above the cross member in front of the grill (similar to the GetLost bumper)
3) Mount the winch below the cross member and reduce your approach angle.

4) get the more streamlined non-winch bumper with a 2" receiver and use a winch-in-cradle setup.

..... well that's what I would go with in that case.

But seeing how there are both WKs and XKs with winches behind the stock bumper in place of that frame section.... I'd prefer that method with a nice streamlined aftermarket steel bumper.

[Sal-XK]

I obviously will cut that piece out no problem and I also think it is necessary. With having no true frame to tie into I think doing this is necessary for strength. We all seen the pics of the get lost bumper that was yanked on to hard. Yes you may lose a sale or two from people that won’t want to cut the cross support out but I think most your customers will be the insane ones anyway who truly require a bumper to perform not just look good. True Jeep put that piece there for a reason but they also never intended for you to lift your Jeep or bolt on a steel bumper and slap a 15k LB winch to the front of it either and if they had they would of done something similar to this which a few members have already done to address the weakness in this area. The only way to make this bumper smaller as stated is to mount the winch on top up against the grill blocking air flow but you’re not addressing the issues with strength mounting a steel bumper to a unibody. You can’t make everyone happy in business unless you want to design and offer three bumpers which in this market I don’t think you will get your money back doing that. If I were to purchase a bumper like the GL I would be cutting that piece out and tying the bumper into that area for strength anyway. I don’t see how you can build a bumper for true extreme use without addressing these issues in that way. In fact when I put mine on I will be stiffening up more of the front unibody structure then just the cross frame piece. I want the ability to be yanked or winched off of or out of whatever mess I get myself into without worrying about ripping the bumper off. But then again I don’t worry about resale I found out a few months back I already messed that up so nothing to worry about for me now LOL. I also found out by purchasing the XJ that I love to wheel my XK!! There was just something missing and not the same when I was wheeling the XJ so my XK will be around for a long time if not forever

[LWM]

Well everyone will have their own opinion and that is why I asked, ultimatly I have to do what is best for business and at this point it looks like there are three projects on the table. Keep your comments coming as they help develop what the final outcome will be.

So far I am looking at:

1) replacement steel bumper with winch / requiring removal of cross member
2) replacement slimline bumper without winch / bolt on with no triming of steel (plastic fenders will need triming)
This bumper will be designed if possible so that you can order a replacement interior mount and change it into an option 1 bumper later.
3) front receiver hitch / front facia will need trimed

[Sal-XK]

Well I'll keep pushing for the most extreme option LMAO but I would guess that is no big shocker either LOL. I just read the other thread the one previous to this and what criket was talking about plating the front sub frame is what I was refering to as well. Just boxing it out with steel making it stronger to handle the stress of being yanked on. I'm sure this well mess up the way the Jeep suppose to act when it's in a accident and stuff like that because it won't crumple as designed after that.

[XK N00b]

I'm torn. The bumper prototype looks great. I have no doubts this will be a high quality product in it's final form. I want to go with Sal and say "Yeah, lets go extreme heavy duty with it." But I also have reservations about cutting into the frame of the Jeep. I would need to see the replacement bracing and how it's mounted. How would a bolt on brace behave when the Jeep is out and being bounced and flexed and under stress? I've also seen the pictures of the jeep with the torn off front end, so I agree that there has to be a better system for mounting a winch to these vehicles that would hold up to the strain of being winched out of the mud, water, sand, etc. I may have to see one mounted that's been out and used and abused, and a follow up tear down to see how the structure is holding up before pulling the trigger. I know it may be overly cautious, but I don't think the wife will let me buy a third Commander anytime soon, so I'd need to be sure. There ya go, if you can sell it to my wife, I'll buy it!

[Matt]

Sal... what's with your font? Can't see it very well in black stealth settting..

[XK N00b]

Well I'll keep pushing for the most extreme option LMAO but I would guess that is no big shocker either LOL. I just read the other thread the one previous to this and what criket was talking about plating the front sub frame is what I was refering to as well. Just boxing it out with steel making it stronger to handle the stress of being yanked on. I'm sure this well mess up the way the Jeep suppose to act when it's in a accident and stuff like that because it won't crumple as designed after that.

I thought about how it would behave in an accident having been reinforced. The car wouldn't bend as engineered, but something's got to give and (call me selfish) I would rather it be the other guy.

[Sal-XK]

I'm torn. The bumper prototype looks great. I have no doubts this will be a high quality product in it's final form. I want to go with Sal and say "Yeah, lets go extreme heavy duty with it." But I also have reservations about cutting into the frame of the Jeep. I would need to see the replacement bracing and how it's mounted. How would a bolt on brace behave when the Jeep is out and being bounced and flexed and under stress? I've also seen the pictures of the jeep with the torn off front end, so I agree that there has to be a better system for mounting a winch to these vehicles that would hold up to the strain of being winched out of the mud, water, sand, etc. I may have to see one mounted that's been out and used and abused, and a follow up tear down to see how the structure is holding up before pulling the trigger. I know it may be overly cautious, but I don't think the wife will let me buy a third Commander anytime soon, so I'd need to be sure. There ya go, if you can sell it to my wife, I'll buy it!

There are a few members already running this mod doing this was new about 7 months ago but not new anymore. What were doing is taking out a piece of the unibody that is very strong in one direction ( left to right) but if pulled in the other direction like being yanked on is week. Every thing you put on the unibody has to have its load spread out as far as possible or the thin metal will just buckle and bend and even tear. You couldn't just put a single bolt in there and yank on it like a normal frame, on the unibody you will just pull the bolt straight out. So by taking this piece out and I would prefer to weld a piece back in but even bolting some steel in it's place your making that entire section tons stronger than it already is but in both directions. if you're going to have a bumper you can yank on as hard as you want and not worry about it being torn off I feel this is the only option. I think our wives would be a lot more upset if we spent thousands on new bumper saying how we needed it for wheeling and stuff and then ripped off doing the things we said we needed it for. I know my wife would not be happy and say what did you buy that thing for then.

Sal... what's with your font? Can't see it very well in black stealth settting..

I don't know what I did but I hit the font button on accident and tried putting it back I thought it was close but guess not.