Just a note....I found out last summer at WCCC, that no matter how secure and solid everything feels, its going to shift...if you do a lot of crawling with side to side motion, lots of weight up there will take its toll on the rails and the cross members. After Grizzly Lake and Chinaman Gulch I had some bent cross members and the rails were starting to separate in the corners. After many many hours of continuous flopping from side to side over rocks i could tell I had too much weight, all of which i have had up there many times before with no issue regular trails.