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  1. #1
    Lifetime Member Getting Dirty Sal-XK's Avatar
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    Thanks to Matt for this information..

    Thanks to Wanderingts for the great questions..

    I am in NO WAY an expert... i don't think there's such thing as a matter of fact. Experience is key when it comes to offroading and there is also a lot of opinion & preference involved. I try to keep my answers general since every time i've been stuck, it's been a different method to get me out... so you can't just say "when you're stuck in mud its always best to __________"... because it varies.


    1) If someone else is winching you out, where are the best places to attach to a Commander?

    For the rear, I always use the hitch via a hitch pin. However, aftermarket points are on my "list" of things to buy... but its generally best to pull from the center line of the vehicle. They sell a nice D-Ring receiver for the hitch; i personally feel that's the best.

    For the front, if you don't have the stock tow hooks I would recommend buying some D-Ring shackle mounts. Forgot who makes them but i'm sure they're in Sal's link


    2) Is there a way to tell prior to smelling wires burning that your winch is getting too hot? How hot is ok?

    You can usually notice a degradation in performance. Also, pay attention to the sound of the winch. You can usually hear when it's struggling. How hot is OK? That's a loaded question. I'd go the other way and say to try everything possible to keep it cool.


    3) I hear people talk about doubling your winches pulling power by using a snatch block. How easy is it to double your pulling power but then go beyond the mounting strength of your winch mount causing damage?

    This is a bit tricky, it depends greatly on the mount style.

    Let's put it this way... if you're stuck to the point that you bend your winch mount, you have MUCH bigger problems than replacing a mount.

    Also, the purpose of the snatch block isn't just to double the pulling power of the winch, it's to allow the winch to do half of the work that would be needed for a straight pull. This goes back to the previous question... it's a method to keep the winch cool. For example say you're stuck and it will require 10,000 lb of force to get you out and you have a 12,000 lb winch. You're fine right? Sure... but you're going to be working that winch near it's limit. If you hook up that snatch block, you'll get 10,000 lb of force via 5,000 lb on the winch; so the winch will operate much smoother and cooler (but will need to pull 2x the distance, which is the trade-off).


    4) How much of an angle, if any, can you winch without harming your cable, mount, winch, etc?

    There's no set number. Good practice is to always minimize the angle as much as possible.


    5) In what situations should you winch versus a snatch strap?

    If it'd be a quick pull to yank you out, snatch strap will be quicker and easier. If you're stuck pretty good though there's no reason to beat the hell out of the "pull" vehicle by trying to yank you out repeatedly. It's a judgment call.

    I've also found that if you're in deep, clay like mud it's usually best to go straight to a winch. Having someone trying to pull you out while you hammer the gas tends to dig you down deeper, whereas hooking up that winch with ~10k lb constantly pulling you forward while you control the throttle works out much better. Remember, there aren't many offroad vehicles that are going to give you the constant pull force that a winch can... either they just don't have the power or they won't have the traction.

  2. #2
    Lifetime Member Getting Dirty Sal-XK's Avatar
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    Ok this is what ended up with guys. I will leave this thread open for a while to get feed back and more information from you guys so post up.

  3. #3
    Lifetime Member Getting Dirty valpacer's Avatar
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    Absolutely a must read thread here Sal, good work. Iva actually linked this thread to some guys down here to read.

    My only comment is on the current trend of cheap winches, ropes and blocks. Short story.

    We spent over 5 hrs last weekend winching a dead XJ (broke the front locker, and locked the drivetrain up solid, until the winch overcame the centre pin the wheels freed up about 10m into the pull) up Big Red at Glasshouse mountains. One of the trucks has a no name 9.5k winch on his XJ, and only the factory battery. Not only did his winch make more noise than a broken patrol gearbox, the factory alternator and battery couldnt keep up after only 3 mins of winching. At the time his was the only truck ahead of the stranded one. We took my Grand and another XJ around the chicken track (which is now almost as hard as the main track!) and set up in place at the top of Big Red (around 55m to the stranded truck below) Using multiple snatch blocks, the other XJ as a land anchor we inched the XJ up to the top with many changes of location and angles etc.

    My Warn Magnum 9k (yep just an entry level warn) didnt stop all night. It got hot enough that you only just couldnt touch it but that was it. The club has a 45m rope extension (genuine Dyneema), i carry a 20m and my winch has 32m usable rope (All Dyneema). All this gear worked flawlessly.

    The day after someone was stuck up the road and I got a call to go and give a hand. Different area, almost same situation. Except that 2 chinese winches had blown solenoid packs (1 has also blown a battery in a patrol!) and 1 unknown ebay rope and so called heavy duty snatch block failed. According to the guys it had not even touched the ground under tension. The snatch block centre bearing ground into itself and locked up tight. Another 2 hour winch to get a fat arse landcruiser up the hill, and again the winch just kept going and all my gear worked perfect.

    There are some things that at the end of the day you just have to pay the right money for, and do the right maintenance too.

    Happy winching.

    Dave.
    2007 WH Grand Cherokee CRD QDII - 3" Exhaust, GDE Flash Tune, CRDSTU Hybrid Lift & bash Plates, 4xGuard Rock Rails & Rear Sliders, Saguaro F&R Bars, Warn 9.5CTI-s, AEV Saverge Rims, 35" KM2's, Snorkel, Custom Rear Drawers, ARB Dual Compressor + On Board Air, BullyDog Monitor, Dual Optimas Front and Dual Rear Aux Batteries YouTube Vids

  4. #4
    Lifetime Member Getting Dirty valpacer's Avatar
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    On another note too, the above diagram of the indirect line pull is a very important one. By putting the snatch block on the truck being recovered, you can actually still steer that truck quite easily and make things much safer (ie choosing lines etc) than if you jjust ran between the two vehicles, and usually gives you a much better choice of placement for the recovery vehicle..

    Dave
    2007 WH Grand Cherokee CRD QDII - 3" Exhaust, GDE Flash Tune, CRDSTU Hybrid Lift & bash Plates, 4xGuard Rock Rails & Rear Sliders, Saguaro F&R Bars, Warn 9.5CTI-s, AEV Saverge Rims, 35" KM2's, Snorkel, Custom Rear Drawers, ARB Dual Compressor + On Board Air, BullyDog Monitor, Dual Optimas Front and Dual Rear Aux Batteries YouTube Vids

  5. #5
    Lifetime Member Getting Dirty Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valpacer View Post
    There are some things that at the end of the day you just have to pay the right money for, and do the right maintenance too.
    Words of wisdom right there my friend!!

  6. #6
    Lifetime Member Getting Dirty Sal-XK's Avatar
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    I agree with that and warren would be my choice. But which one to get? For my needs the basic entry level one will do for valpacer you could justify spending more for a bigger faster model.

  7. #7
    Lifetime Member Getting Dirty valpacer's Avatar
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    I actually have a larger Warn coming in the next container, with the contactor pack instead of solenoids. A little bit faster but a lot better for fighting water ingress and maintenance time.

    Dave
    2007 WH Grand Cherokee CRD QDII - 3" Exhaust, GDE Flash Tune, CRDSTU Hybrid Lift & bash Plates, 4xGuard Rock Rails & Rear Sliders, Saguaro F&R Bars, Warn 9.5CTI-s, AEV Saverge Rims, 35" KM2's, Snorkel, Custom Rear Drawers, ARB Dual Compressor + On Board Air, BullyDog Monitor, Dual Optimas Front and Dual Rear Aux Batteries YouTube Vids

  8. #8
    Lifetime Member Getting Dirty Sal-XK's Avatar
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    Most places I go snatching is all that's needed. If I found my self pulling full size rigs out needing several hard pulls to get the job done I would spend more on a better winch with faster pull speed and ones that run cooler as well.

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